On his blog Uncertain Principles, Chad Orzel posted on "framing" [The Final Word on Framing. He said,
That's a thought, but I think the answer is much simpler: PZ and Larry Moran are not primarily interested in promoting science.It's not a simple as that Chad. I try to do both things. I try to write about science with the hope that I'm telling people something they don't know. If you would take the time to look at my blog I think you might see the occasional posting on science-related topics. Religion isn't mentioned.
"That's crazy," you say. But here it is from the horse's mouth, Larry Moran in Chris Mooney's comments:I think religion is the problem and I'll continue to make the case against religion and superstition. One of the many ways where you and Nisbet go wrong is to assume that people like PZ, Dawkins, and me are primarily fighting for evolution. That's why you argue that in the fight to save evolution it's "wrong" (e.g., not part of your frame) to attack religion.That's the beginning and end of the problem. The entire problem with "framing" is that Nisbet and Mooney are looking for the best way to promote science, while PZ and Larry are looking for the best way to smash religion. The goals are not the same, and the appropriate methods are not the same-- in particular, Nisbet and Mooney argue that the best way to promote science would be to show a little tact when dealing with religious people, and that runs directly counter to the real goals of PZ and Larry.
When are you going to realize that our primary goal in many cases is to combat the worst faults of religion? Asking us to stop criticizing religion is like asking us to give up fighting for something we really care about. That's not "framing," it's surrender.
On the other hand, there are times when I post about the conflict between rationality and superstition. I think there's a problem there and religion is a big part of it. Quite frankly, I don't find the arguments of the Theistic Evolutionists the least bit effective. Why should I ignore them when they spout their silliness?
Telling me that I should not criticize religion because it's not helping science education is just nonsense. It's like telling me to abandon something I feel very strongly about just because you don't like it. If that's what framing is all about then I'm not interested.
The problem with the framers is that they get terribly confused about issues. For some reason they think I'm a one dimensional person who's only interest is science education. They think that when I criticize superstitious nonsense I must always be wearing my science education hat. That's why they tell me and Dawkins and PZ not to criticize religion if we're trying to educate people about science.
Well, I got news for them. We are involved in several issues. One of them is teaching science. One of them is fighting superstition. There are others. Don't tell me not to fight superstition because I should only be concerned about science education. I'm concerned about both. In an ideal world people would understand science and reject superstition. I'd like to work toward that goal.