Saturday, August 13, 2011

What Drives Darwinian Scientists to their Fury

In spite of what they promised earlier, the Evolution News & Views (sic) blog does not allow comments. That's why I'm posting a quotation from today's piece by David Klinghoffer: What Drives Darwinian Scientists to their Fury
You may have wondered why Darwinists in academia get so worked up about intelligent design. Reading what they write about our scientists and their work, you picture these guys turning red and sweating a lot. Alternatively, they try to mask their rage by getting all sarcastic and pseudo-witty -- a man of mature age like Larry Moran, for example, calling other adults "IDiots."
I get "worked up" about Intelligent Design Creationism because it's anti-science and one of my issues is the promotion of scientific literacy (and rationalism). It's wrong to describe my feelings as "rage." My feelings about Intelligent Design Creationists are more akin to my feelings about people who believe they were abducted by aliens, or people who believe in bigfoot. "Bemused," "flabbergasted," and "sad" are more appropriate terms to describe how I react when I read the name "David Klinghoffer."

I'm very picky about who I call an IDiot. It's restricted to that subset of adults (and those who wish they were adults) who believe in Intelligent Design Creationism. It's a useful term, just as the terms "Darwinist" and "pompous professor" seem to be useful to David Klinghoffer [see hypocrisy].
A guy like Professor Pompous or any of the better known Darwinian-scientist writers you can think of aren't driven to their fury directly by the scholarly work of Michael Behe, Doug Axe or Stephen Meyer, but rather indirectly every time a student brings it up in class. Every year a new cohort of young people comes through the lecture hall and some number of them -- probably a growing number -- have been exposed somewhere to ID's critique and alternative to neo-Darwinism. Every time a student puts her hand up and politely asks something along the lines of, "But what about irreducible complexity?" it throws the class discussion down a totally different corridor of the mind than the professor meant it to go.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, David, but the vast majority of students in my classes have never heard of Intelligent Design Creationism. In my Fall course we discuss Jonathan Wells' book Icons of Evolution as an example of anti-science writing but I have to explain to the class what Intelligent Design Creationism is all about. It never comes up in other classes.

In my own writings on the subject, I concentrate mostly on what the minor IDiots are writing on their blogs and on what the bigger names are saying in their books. That's why I've been spending so much time lately discussing Jonathan Wells' new book The Myth of Junk DNA. I've also written about Michael Behe, Stephan Meyer, and Doug Axe.

So, David, you are dead wrong about almost everything you write if it refers to me. I suspect it doesn't apply to most other professors who oppose the IDiots. We're not troubled—and certainly not "enraged"—by what students are saying. We prefer to make fun of the "big guns" but even those targets aren't much of an intellectual challenge.

Instead of constantly acting like a crybaby over perceived insults to your intelligence, why don't you try responding to the rational, scientific arguments we're making? You might learn something.


You can buy the T-shirt at Endangered Outlaw.

28 comments :

  1. Alternatively, they try to mask their rage by getting all sarcastic and pseudo-witty

    Yes, see, you can't find the rage, it's camouflaged, sort of like how the Designer disguised his designs (in typical multicellular organisms) with apparent adaptations of linearly-descended genetic material. You might think that design wouldn't be restricted like evolution is, but God is inscrutable that way.

    We all know that you're raging away, though. You must be, since ID has such profound evidence--only that it's disguised as evolutionary evidence.

    Glen Davidson

    ReplyDelete
  2. Do you condone the way PZ Myers dealt with the student as shown in the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhX-8fBPWEs

    This video is referred to in the link you posted:
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/08/what_drives_darwinian_scientis049461.html

    ReplyDelete
  3. Lying for Jesus, it's a common activity those who try to make facts fit their fantasy theories.

    It never ceases to amaze me how these people can be so hypocritical. "Thou shalt not bear false witness... unless it's to support my Godly existence" - funny I've never read that anywhere.

    And your use of the word IDiot, it's not applied to nearly enough people, nearly frequently enough. Those who believe the ridiculous should be ridiculed.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Dr. Moran, do you condone the way PZ Myers dealt with the student as shown in the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhX-8fBPWEs

    This video is referred to in the link you posted:
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/08/what_drives_darwinian_scientis049461.html

    ReplyDelete
  5. Dr. Moran, why did you post this thread if you are not willing to answer my question that I have asked twice?

    Do you condone the way PZ Myers dealt with the student as shown in the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhX-8fBPWEs
    This video is referred to in the link you posted:
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/08/what_drives_darwinian_scientis049461.html

    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/08/what_drives_darwinian_scientis049461.html

    ReplyDelete
  6. Re anonymous

    Dr. Moran, why did you post this thread if you are not willing to answer my question that I have asked twice?

    This is Prof. Moran's blog; thus he can run anyway he desires. He is under no obligation to respond to comments by Mr. anonymous. If Mr. anonymous doesn't like the way Prof. Moran runs his blog, I suggest that he vote with his feet.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous the utmost IDiot,

    I don't know about Larry, but I don't "condone" PZ's answer to that guy. I wholeheartedly applaud it. Sometimes you just have to cut the crap before it goes too far. We should give you more of those kinds of answers and, afterwards, stop responding any more to your blatant stupidity.

    ReplyDelete
  8. He probably posted this thread while not responding to you because his sense of self worth does not depend on doing everything that a dishonest buffoon asks of him. Just a thought.

    Lets pretend that you place some sort of decoration in your yard, and some idiot comes up and starts asking a slew of idiotic questions that are only slightly related to what you put outside. Would you not consider "Why did you put that in your yard if you are not going to answer my questions!?" to be abysmally stupid?

    ReplyDelete
  9. It doesn't look like Moran will be responding.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Do you condone the way PZ Myers dealt with the student as shown in the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhX-8fBPWEs

    Absolutely. PZ several times gave the young man (whether he's a "student" of anything, I can't tell from the video) a chance to ask his question(s), then told him (1) exactly how the question(s) assumed an invalid premise, and (2) that he ought to be ashamed to be spouting such obviously invalid ("bullshit" was the term used) stuff. It was all done without any raising of voices or calling of names.

    I think this was an excellent way to allow the young man to say his piece, then hopefully jog him to turn whatever research skills he has toward actual science, rather than creationist crap. In the exchange, PZ was always duly respectful toward the person, and duly disrespectful of the unscientific fallacies in his questioning.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Moran has referred to an article written by David Klinghoffer entitled "What Drives Darwinian Scientists to their Fury?"

    Moran criticized Klinghoffer.

    Klinghoffer refers to an interchange between PZ Myers and a student. Klinghoffer criticizes PZ Myers for his actions.

    Based on Moran's opening post and his criticisms of Klinghoffer, it is a reasonable conclusion to think that Moran finds nothing objectionable with the way PZ Myers acted. But before I come to this conclusion I am asking Moran.

    Moran for some reason declines to answer this question.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Since Moran is unwilling to comment on Myers actions, let me just say that it is shameful for a prof in a position of authority to publicly berate someone much younger and much his junior in the field.
    What Myers did is what a very immature man does.
    Everyone here knows that, but looks the other way.

    I have given Moran ample opportunity to distance himself from Myers' shameful actions.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Anonymous -

    Is it just that the way you write on the Internet makes you sound like an insufferable pompous twit, and you're actually a heck of a fellow in real life? Or is this really the way you are in person?

    Quite seriously, I've never run into anyone so full of himself for so little reason. I'm going to go apologize now to all the IDiots I used to think were a**holes.

    ReplyDelete
  14. On the contrary, Myers response was entirely appropriate, and more scientists should start responding to ID/creationist word games and dishonesty in a similar fashion, and that's taking your unwarranteed assumption that the questioner was a junior student in the field at face value. If you want to play in academic circles, you need to play by the rules. He didn't, so he got slapped down for it, and rightly so.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Well we know where ScienceAvenger stands.
    I wonder where Moran stands.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Proponents of so-called "Intelligent Design" should watch Death by Design - http://www.amazon.com/Death-Design-Life-Times/dp/B0008FXT78 because if you're going to say the universe and all the life in it bears the fingerprints of a designer, you need to include the process of death in that design -- which would make death beautiful and necessary, not a punishment by a bronze age deity. Kind of screws up the whole purpose of ID, which is to serve as a trojan horse for Judeo-Christian theology.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Moran is stuck. If he condones Myers actions he is on record supporting the shameful public browbeating of a young student.
    And if he does not condone it, then he is supporting Klinghoffer's criticism of such shameful behavior.
    That is why he has gone quiet.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Why should a materialist feel any fury at all? Or anything else for that matter? We're all just chemical automatons. Atoms and molecules at play.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous writes:

    it is shameful for a prof in a position of authority to publicly berate someone much younger

    I invite everyone to watch the video linked by Anonymous and see whether you feel "berate" is an appropriate description. Dr. Myers never raised his voice or became terse with the young man. In fact he asked that the rest of the audience let him speak when others began to heckle. He did tell the young man his questions were "bullshit," which they certainly were. Dr. Myers' behavior is not what I picture when I hear the word "berate."

    ReplyDelete
  20. And if he does not condone it, then he is supporting Klinghoffer's criticism of such shameful behavior.
    That is why he has gone quiet


    There's an obvious third alternative: Moran isn't going to allow some anonymous twit to dictate to him what subjects he discusses and what questions he answers.

    Why should a materialist feel any fury at all? Or anything else for that matter? We're all just chemical automatons. Atoms and molecules at play.

    "Should" doesn't enter into it. Facts trump theory. Humans do in fact feel fury, as apes and threatened mother elephants and a whole host of other species do. Your logic is flawed: Made of atoms and molecules <> Chemical automatons.

    ReplyDelete
  21. If Moran did not want to answer this perfectly reasonable question, then he ought not to have posted this thread in the first place.
    If someone posts as Moran did, he ought to tell us where he stands on the issue and not evade the question.

    I conclude that he condones the shameful behavior of Myers based on everything he included in his opening post.
    And he has not disassociated himself from it, even after my repeated questioning.

    ReplyDelete
  22. There is nothing more lame than a commenter who obsesses over the content of the blog. Start your own blog guy, and prioritize things how you like. You might even attract some of us there, who knows?

    But no one gives a flying fuck what you think Moran should blog about, or what goofy conclusions you draw from a nonanswer. No. One. So make an argument with actual evidence or STFU already.

    ReplyDelete
  23. ScienceAvenger displays the fury that Klinghoffer is talking about.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Genius argumentative technique. Learn that in Junior High debate class? Accuss opponent of having negative trait X. Regardless of what opponent says, claim it supports your accusation. You're the type that'd lynch a man and then accuse him of being "uppity" when he complains, or oppress a group for trait X and then claim their depression is due to the inherent evil of X. You're a vile person. Rejection of science is only the tip of the iceberg of your problems.

    ReplyDelete
  25. And ScienceAvenger's fury leads to scurrilous, personal attack.

    He demonstrates the fury that Darwinian Scientists feel and express.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Well the good news is that the other furious evolutionists here are not posting in this thread (yet).
    Perhaps they see the value of laying low for a bit.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Not a scientist, just a concerned citizen that tries to tie up trolls so they don't waste scientists' valuable time, and to illustrate the vapidity and juvenility of their arguments.

    Thanks for helping me.

    Meanwhile, science continues to move on.

    ReplyDelete
  28. When Darwinian scientists are called on their fury they slide over to sarcasm and insult.

    Just as Klinghoffer was noting.

    ReplyDelete