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Wednesday, May 27, 2015

The "Insulation Theory of Junk DNA"

My copy of Junk DNA by Nessa Carey has arrived and I'm working my way through it. It really is as bad as we imagined.

Here's an example (pp. 34-36). She describes a situation where an angry baboon might smash an expensive watch. If you hide the watch in large rolls of insulation, the baboon is less likely to cause damage.
And the insulation theory of junk DNA was built on the same premise. The genes that code for proteins are incredibly important. They have been subjected to high levels of evolutionary pressure, so that in any given organism, the individual protein sequence is as good as it's likely to get. A mutation in DNA—a change in a base pair—that changes the protein sequence is unlikely to make a protein more effective. It's more likely that a mutation will interfere with a protein's function or activity in a way that has negative consequences.

The problem is that our genome is constantly bombarded by potentially damaging stimuli in our environment. We sometimes think of this as a modern phenomenon, especially when we consider radiation from disasters such as those at the Chernobyl or Fukushima nuclear plants. But in reality this has been an issue throughout human existence. From ultraviolet radiation in sunlight to carcinogens in food, or emission of radon gas from granite rocks, we have always been assailed by potential threats to our genomic integrity. Sometimes these don't matter that much. If ultraviolet radiation causes a mutation in a skin cell, and the mutation results in the death of that cell, it's not a big deal. We have lots of skin cells; they die and are replaced all the time, and the loss of one extra is not a problem.

But if the mutation causes a cell to survive better than its neighbours, that's a step towards the development of a potential cancer, and the consequences of that can be a very big deal indeed. For example, over 75,000 new cases of melanoma are diagnosed every year in the United States, and there are nearly 10,000 deaths per year from the condition. Excessive exposure to ultraviolet radiation is a major risk factor. In evolutionary terms, mutations would be even worse if they occurred in eggs or sperm, as they may be passed on to offspring.

If we think of our genome as constantly under assault, the insulation theory of junk DNA has definite attractions. If only one in 50 or our bases is important for protein sequence because the other 49 base pairs are simply junk, then there's only a one in 50 chance that a damaging stimulus that hits a DNA molecule will actually strike an important region.
There are two obvious difficulties with the insulation theory of junk DNA. The first is that Nessa Carey believes that a lot of noncoding DNA is functional. If she's correct, that requires a great deal of insulating DNA if it's going to protect the functional parts. You can't have it both ways.

The second problem is that it doesn't pass the Onion Test. (I don't think the Onion Test is mentioned in the book but I haven't finished it yet.)

I'm sure you can come up with other objections.

Here's how I like to think of this explanation using the field of bullets analogy popularized by David Raup in his book Extinction: Bad Genes or Bad Luck.

Imagine an automatic machine gun in a pillbox firing 10 rounds a second. It swivels from left to right spraying bullets at random across a field. The enemy has only one grenade and in order to silence the machine gun, some soldier has to run across the field avoiding the bullets until he gets within throwing distance of the pillbox.

Will the soldier's chances be increased if he lines up side-by-side with 99 other soldiers (no grenades) and they all charge together? No.

What if all 100 soldiers line up in single file with the man holding the grenade at the back? That will work.

So, the only way that the insulation theory works is if the extra DNA forms a tight shield around the important functional DNA and physically protects it from cosmic rays or UV light. But this DNA is already "shielded" by a plasma membrane, a nuclear membrane, and various histones; not to mention all the other protein molecules, carbohydrates, and water molecules inside the cell. It's difficult to see what advantage DNA molecules have in direct shielding.

None of these problems are discussed in the book.


238 comments :

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John Harshman said...

Tom: what Georgi is trying to tell you is that you can't call it "function" unless it's maintained by selection. Even if it arose through neutral evolution or within-genome "selection" among selfish elements, if bulk sequence can be said to have a function it's necessary that it be maintained by purifying selection, i.e. shorter variants must be selected against. Otherwise that's just an effect, not a function.

Claudiu Bandea said...

Good night Tom, and don't take my exchanges with Georgi seriously... However, I am seriously curious if you'll succeed in continuing your discussion with Georgi tomorrow, as he might be busy reading the papers I recommended -:).

Georgi Marinov said...

Tom MuellerWednesday, June 03, 2015 9:35:00 PM

Why cannot "functionality" emerge as some later evolutionary after-thought after genome expansion has already occurred? (forgive my clumsy turn of phrase)


Let me give an example.

An LTR element gets inserted in the neighborhood of a gene. It is silence and fixed by neutral processes as it has little effect on anything there. At a later point its regulatory sequences mutate in such a way that a new enhancer for the nearby gene is created, which causes the gene to be expressed in a new context, which turns out to be beneficial. That new enhancer has now been exapted. From that point on, it is maintained by selection -- i.e. its sequence is under some level of constraint. And it can be said to have a function.

But if it is not under any constraint then it's not important for anything, and we cannot refer to it as exapted or functional.

Claudiu Bandea said...

@Tom,

...add John to that discussion too.

Some ammunition here...the same rationale I pointed out above about positive selection:

"a DNA fragment of a few hundred or even a few thousands base pairs has a protective function only if added to the other thousands of jDNA fragments in the genome .You can think about it as "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts." "

works also for the purifying selection on genomes losing a DNA fragment of a few hundred or even a few thousands base pairs.

Claudiu Bandea said...

@ Tom,

I forget to add an example supporting my rationale. Humans have several thousands MHC alleles, which apparently have, as a group, essential immunological functions. Perhaps, somebody can calculate, or explain, the "selection coefficients'" associated with these genes, and let us know if they are indeed functional, or not?

John Harshman said...

No, each allele has an essential immunological function if the antigen it recognizes turns up. If that antigen turns up often enough, the allele won't be lost. If it doesn't turn up, eventually the allele will be lost.

judmarc said...

They have the evidence on how lifeless matter became alive by accident without the need of intelligence. They can't replicate it with all the scientific knowledge and technology they have

Sorry Pest, you just missed it - by 180+ years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%B6hler_synthesis

Tom Mueller said...

Hi Georgi

Re:
That new enhancer has now been exapted. From that point on, it is maintained by selection -- i.e. its sequence is under some level of constraint. And it can be said to have a function.

I’m with you. Let’s see if I can successfully continue your line of reasoning with a possible version of some functional role for non-informational DNA along the lines Claudiu may have been suggesting

Imagine that same enhancer flanked by repetitive DNA of TE origin; Alu sequences say in humans and equivalent but non-homologous sequences in other lineages.

Now imagine the host reining in or shutting down these stretches of DNA by turning on facultative heterochromatin, but only when gene expression controlled by that particular enhancer is not needed. Initially, this response evolved as host defense to TE mutagenesis. At some later point in time, facultative heterochromatin and the whole epigenetics story became co-opted as an exhuberant and redundant level of gene regulation also maintained by selection; ergo my invocation of “exaptation”.

Any such sequence sequence is also “under some level of constraint”, but only at a lineage specific level. Different lineages will have different sequences because different lineages had different TEs. I was thinking of course specifically of human Alu and murine B1.

The important bit: such sequences can vary greatly in length while still performing the same “function” of facultative heterochromatin addressing Gregory's C-value enigma.

Again, thank you for your patience and your indulgence.

Gary Gaulin said...

The following must be regarded as speculative, but in my opinion something like this makes more sense than assuming repeats and such are "junk".

A Model of Repetitive-DNA-Organized Chromatin Network of Interphase Chromosomes

Chromosome territories must also preserve their 3D shape and structure (nuclear architecture). I would like to see that discussed too.

Tom Mueller said...

@ Gary Gaulin

re:
I would like to see that discussed too.

I take it you have not been paying attention to Claudiu's, Gerogi's, Barb's and John Harshman's contributions above. Their latest posts are in fact already specifically addressing your suggested line of discussion, to whit Peter Fraser's suggested insights on interphase chromatin structure.

I am particularly fond of Barb Wilson's assessment:

Seems there are two ways to look at the observation that rearranging junk DNA changes the expression of certain genes. First: The "junk" DNA has a regulatory effect on gene expression. Second: The darn junk DNA interferes with the regulation of gene expression unless it's correctly folded out of the way.

Distinguishing between those ideas might be difficult; they sort of blend into each other. However, the extremely reduced genomes of fugu and bladderworts lends credence to the second.


My rebuttal to Barb depended on speculation regarding exaptation of facultative heterochromatin as an exuberantly redundant level of genetic control.

That said, the burden of proof still remains with the "functional" camp ergo Georgi's specific demands for selection coefficients which remain problematic.

I suggest you revisit the the Corbett-Detig et al. paper found here:

http://sandwalk.blogspot.ca/2015/04/does-natural-selection-constrain.html

In other words, species may in fact adapt around the changes brought about by a passively accumulated volume of bulk DNA, rather than the volume of bulk DNA being directly under selection, even at the species level. (Debt of gratitude to Paul McBride & Barb Wilson for aiding an aging Biology teacher on that subtle point)

I suggest you not attempt to reinvent the wheel and instead revisit what has already been written.

Gary Gaulin said...

Yes Tom, the discussion is close to addressing nuclear architecture. But "natural selection" and other generalizations do not explain the systematics that are involved.

Tom Mueller said...

@ Gary

You may be correct - but for all the wrong reasons. As Paul McBride needed to patiently explain regarding the significance of the Allee Effect wrt the Corbett-Detig paper mentioned above; natural selection may indeed not be operative.

I am not very adept with this material and am clearly out of my depth. I am grateful for Paul McBride's patient intercessions explaining Mike Lynch insights how across the tree of life the amount of bulk DNA scales negatively with effective population size.

Remember that effective population size determines the "strength" of natural selection suggesting that in fact weak negative selection permits a build up of bulk DNA in smaller populations.

I suspect that you are suggesting something quite different, i.e. that the complexity of what we are describing is so "irreducible" we need to invoke "intelligent design" or teleological considerations.

If so - we have nothing left to discuss and I will take my leave, duck and take cover while gleefully awaiting Diogenes acerbic wit as he demolishes your futile attempts to shoe-horn superstition into the corset of empirical science.

Tom Mueller said...

Hi again Georgi,

I needed to return to your:

There wasn't really an evolution of defense mechanisms at a later time points.

My understanding is otherwise: host-parasite co-evolution is akin to a constant never-ending arms-race.

That said, not all lineages will experience the same intensity of bataille royale as others: whereas as some lineages will have managed to purge parasitic DNA while other lineages must merely cope by reining in their parasitic DNA.

Unless I am missing something, I think I have managed to slip through the horns of the dilemma you posed with my answer immediately above which I am attempting to draw to your attention given some distraction in the meantime.

best and grateful regards

Jass said...

Doesn't it bother you Larry, to be so confident about your junk DNA theory, that you perhaps might be wrong? There are complex organisms almost without jDNA? How do you Ex this LM?

Gary Gaulin said...

Tom I was talking about "systematics" as in "systems biology":

Systems biology is the computational and mathematical modeling of complex biological systems. An emerging engineering approach applied to biomedical and biological scientific research, systems biology is a biology-based inter-disciplinary field of study that focuses on complex interactions within biological systems, using a holistic approach (holism instead of the more traditional reductionism) to biological and biomedical research. Particularly from year 2000 onwards, the concept has been used widely in the biosciences in a variety of contexts. For example, the Human Genome Project is an example of applied systems thinking in biology which has led to new, collaborative ways of working on problems in the biological field of genetics. One of the outreaching aims of systems biology is to model and discover emergent properties, properties of cells, tissues and organisms functioning as a system whose theoretical description is only possible using techniques which fall under the remit of systems biology. These typically involve metabolic networks or cell signaling networks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_biology

You are very insulting.

Jass said...

Thanks for the advise pest.

I've been there. I was delusional like Moran and his herds of followers. I have always trusted scientists because my whole family although well educated believed in this crap.. I got curious when my biology prof returned my test. Long story short, I was expelled and my family rejected me at 13.

Piotr Gąsiorowski said...

KevNick,

The fact there are some eukaryotes with very little junk DNA only highlights the fact that junk DNA is really junk rather than "mystery DNA: function unknown". The cost of having a lot of it is not strictly equal zero, so one can expect selection against junk DNA, but this selection is so weak that in most circumstances it turns out to be ineffective: junk accumulates too fast to be got rid of. However, in some organisms (for various reasons) the pressure to maintain a smaller and more "streamlined" genome is non-negligible and leads to the reduction of junk DNA. How would you explain the fact that some organisms can do bloody well without much DNA beyond what's known to be necessary for coding and regulation? If so much extra DNA in humans and most other eukaryotes has hidden but vital functions, how on earth can it be absent in some species?

Jass said...

I guess nobody even bother to seal my mouth with at least one piece of evidence that convinced them that life originated without the need of superior intelligence.

What a shame!

I take it, as I knew before, there is no further need to challenge Moran that their whole "science" is without any foundation. What else is there but belief? Prove me wrong morons....

Gary Gaulin said...

KevNick this forum is so behind the times in science they have become scientifically irrelevant. But you might like this interesting bit of news, from one of the places where intelligence and conscious are being studied:

Center for Consciousness Studies, University of Arizona, Department of Anesthesiology - "Anesthesia Points to Deeper Level ‘Quantum Channels’ as Origins of Consciousness"

The frequency range they are discussing is around the near-IR range, which leads to this information on cell becoming even more valuable than it was before:

CELL INTELLIGENCE - Guenter Albrecht-Buehler, Ph.D., Robert Laughlin Rea Professor Emeritus of Cell Biology, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago

All the evidence still points towards new forms of intelligence just waiting to be discovered. This forum is now a great place to miss all the science fun, happening elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

KevNick,

Somebody gave you lots of explanations above. I guess you did not really want to read answers, so you left and came back just to say nobody answered without checking first.

What makes you think that we should have evidence that no intelligence was involved before thinking that life arose out of natural processes? What makes you think that it is not you who needs evidence that your imaginary being exists before being able to propose that this being made life? What makes you think that just because you believe that being to be real, we would just as easily imagine that some god did this or that? Imaginary beings have this nasty characteristic that makes them non-answers: they are imaginary! That you believe them to be real doesn't mean that it is just as easy for the rest of us to imagine that they might just be real. That doesn't mean that because we don't know something we will think that maybe they're real.

Think about it with honesty. You might not like it, but that being you believe to be real is clearly imaginary to me. Why would I think that it is an answer to something I don't know? Wouldn't it make sense that evidence that this being exists should be presented before I could consider this being to be an answer?

Now, of course, I think that you don't care. I doubt that you will read what I wrote because you don't come for answers. You just come to express your anger at our disbelief.

Tom Mueller said...

@ Gary

re:

"You are very insulting."

Excuse me?

GaryGaulin :...this forum is so behind the times in science they have become scientifically irrelevant.

Cue Diogenes, stage right...

Gary Gaulin said...

I'm not impressed by the "natural selection did it" answers that may look smart to you but to others who need real answers it's a brush-off.

Anonymous said...

KevNick,

That we are mammals doesn't mean that every life form is a mammal. That we are primates doesn't mean that every life form is a primate. That we have a lot of junk DNA doesn't mean that every life form has that much junk DNA, or that no other organism can have more, even much more.

You guys would gain a lot of respect if only you did some actual thinking. Don't get me wrong. Why does this or that organism have a lot of junk and that other so little are interesting questions, but you ask pretending that organisms with different amounts of junk somehow prove junk DNA wrong. That's your problem. You don't try and understand. You don't care about understanding.

Tom Mueller said...

Hi Piotr

I think I understand you as indicated in my own two rebuttals to Gary Gaulin immediately above.

Re:
…If so much extra DNA in humans and most other eukaryotes has hidden but vital functions, how on earth can it be absent in some species?

I am going on a limb here… but as I attempted to explain to Georgi (admittedly very clumsily) perhaps we are witnessing a level of gene regulation that is exuberantly redundant.

Cf: http://tinyurl.com/pejta6n

So to answer your question: perhaps some lineages have hit the sweet spot in their ability to prune TEs and need not resort to reining in TEs with facultative heterochromatin.

I apologize for blurting my confusion in public. I will restate my line of thought:

…imagine the host reining in or shutting down these stretches of DNA by turning on facultative heterochromatin, but only when gene expression controlled by that particular enhancer is not needed. Initially, this response evolved as host defense to TE mutagenesis. At some later point in time, facultative heterochromatin and the whole epigenetics story became co-opted as an exhuberant and redundant level of gene regulation also maintained by selection; ergo my invocation of “exaptation”.

Any such sequence sequence is also “under some level of constraint”, but only at a lineage specific level. Different lineages will have different sequences because different lineages had different TEs. I was thinking of course specifically of human Alu and murine B1.

The important bit: such sequences can vary greatly in length while still performing the same “function” of facultative heterochromatin addressing Gregory's C-value enigma.


I find most frustrating my inability to convince Georgi and others present that facultative heterochromatin may conceivably represent an exaptation for a subsequent and exuberantly redundant level of gene control.

Let's try this from a different angle:

Is it possible that epigenetics is a phenomenon common in some lineages but absent in others?

Tom Mueller said...

re:
…If so much extra DNA in humans and most other eukaryotes has hidden but vital functions, how on earth can it be absent in some species?

Of course we are again rehashing... the keyword is vital... perhaps some phenomena are very real, yet neither "vital" nor "universal"

http://tinyurl.com/ond9v9h

I was always intrigued by Ptashne's lament, that much of what we consider scientific conventional wisdom is in fact extrapolation from ecdysozoa models, as just one for example.

Anonymous said...

KevNick,

With that kind of a crappy story you sure are an imbecile. Nobody is expelled from school for being an idiot like yourself. You could fail a course for not understanding what you're supposed to learn, but not expelled. You didn't go to school, did you?

Tom Mueller said...

Gary,
re:
I'm not impressed by the "natural selection did it" answers that may look smart to you but to others who need real answers it's a brush-off.

Have you ever managed a single post without shoving your foot into your mouth?

I think it safe to say that those who in fact understand the science here are not convinced that selection had anything to do with genome expansion but rather genome expansion gives every appearance to have occurred in small populations despite presumable absent or even negative selection coefficients.

Do you understand the relationship between population size and selection? It's a bit mathy.

If you in fact understood the discussion, you would realize that Claudiu and I are playing advocati diaboli, although I admit (as a aging and non-current high school teacher) I am out of my depth and should be doing a better job.

Where is Diogenes when you need him?

Somebody, please get this Gary off my back!

Gary Gaulin said...

This is the "model" that works:
Intelligence System Circuit

Go ahead and show me how you determined that this circuit diagram came from religion.

Gary Gaulin said...

And yes the same same circuit (labeled for animal brains) is applicable to genetics.
(Intelligent) Causation.png

Gary Gaulin said...

I'll just let you and the others wallow, while I get some science work done on the new computer model. I do though hope you give a scientific answer to this, as opposed to one of your religious one:

http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-insulation-theory-of-junk-dna.html?showComment=1433459962181#c1772923382052723978

Anonymous said...

Gary,

Your delusions of grandeur are astounding. Go do some "science" on the "new computer model." Go! Now! Somebody might publish before you! Run! Become famous for something other than your ridiculous claims! Oh, wait, the "science" is exactly about your ridiculous claims. Hum, hum. No way out for you. You're not about to discover humility and realize that you've been just one more idiot who thinks too highly of himself.

Anonymous said...

Gary! Oh! Im so impressed! Now that's a model!

Piotr Gąsiorowski said...

Tom Mueller: perhaps we are witnessing a level of gene regulation that is exuberantly redundant.

Rube Goldberg regulation?

Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussen said...

Soooo, where's the evidence of divine magic instantly creating fully formed and living organisms? I mean, you religionuts sure do like to babble about the "lack of evidence" for the origin of life, but where's the demonstration of instantaneous magical creation by god? I'm sure you can repeat it in the laboratory with some intense prayer-sessions, right?

judmarc said...

Shorter photosynthesis:

KevNick, before I believe your explanation, you must marshall evidence proving the Cat in the Hat did not create life, the universe, and everything.

Tom Mueller said...

Hi Piotr

re
Rube Goldberg regulation?

LOL - something like that... I never said it all had to look intelligently designed.

I always scratched my head at Epigenetics... and considered it real enough but similarly exuberantly redundant.

But getting back to your "vital"... why cannot those lineages that manage to successfully prune excess deleterious DNA be different than those lineages who only mange to rein in or suppress excess deleterious DNA?

... meaning in some lineages facultative heterochromatin plays an vital function that is lethal when out of control?

Tom Mueller said...

I concede such speculation remains just that... speculation!

The burden of proof is still operative.

That said, I think Claudiu may be on to something here:

Genome instability in cancer includes chromosomal translocations, chromosomal inversions, chromosome deletions etc (sound familiar?)

It gets better – it appears that Heterochromatin dysregulation has everything to do with Genome instability and "cancer progression".

Raising an intriguing question: How does one measure selection coefficients for epigenetic phenomena?

Gary Gaulin said...


UGA researchers edit plant DNA using mechanism evolved in bacteria
......

CRISPR technology is derived from a defense mechanism evolved by bacteria and other single-celled organisms. When a bacterium is attacked by an invader like a virus, it captures some of the virus's DNA, chops it up into pieces and incorporates a segment of the viral DNA into its own genome.

As the bacterium experiences more threats, it accumulates a bank of past infections in a special part of its genetic code called CRISPRs--short for clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats--which act as a kind of immune system to protect against future invasions.
......

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