tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post3137830213110884819..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: The "Insulation Theory of Junk DNA"Larry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger238125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-52320177449541585142015-06-05T16:47:47.093-04:002015-06-05T16:47:47.093-04:00UGA researchers edit plant DNA using mechanism evo...<i><br /><a href="http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-06/uog-ure060415.php" rel="nofollow">UGA researchers edit plant DNA using mechanism evolved in bacteria</a><br />......<br /><br />CRISPR technology is derived from a defense mechanism evolved by bacteria and other single-celled organisms. When a bacterium is attacked by an invader like a virus, it captures some of the virus's DNA, chops it up into pieces and incorporates a segment of the viral DNA into its own genome.<br /><br />As the bacterium experiences more threats, it accumulates a bank of past infections in a special part of its genetic code called CRISPRs--short for clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats--which act as a kind of immune system to protect against future invasions.<br />......<br /></i><br />Gary Gaulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925297296758439900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-68298516465620156292015-06-05T07:15:41.898-04:002015-06-05T07:15:41.898-04:00I concede such speculation remains just that... s...I concede such speculation remains just that... speculation!<br /><br />The burden of proof is still operative. <br /><br />That said, I think Claudiu may be on to something here:<br /><br />Genome instability in cancer includes chromosomal translocations, chromosomal inversions, chromosome deletions etc (sound familiar?)<br /><br />It gets better – it appears that Heterochromatin dysregulation has everything to do with Genome instability and "cancer progression".<br /><br />Raising an intriguing question: How does one measure selection coefficients for epigenetic phenomena?Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-67723089608638458662015-06-05T07:12:12.244-04:002015-06-05T07:12:12.244-04:00Hi Piotr
re
Rube Goldberg regulation?
LOL - some...Hi Piotr<br /><br />re<br /><i>Rube Goldberg regulation?</i><br /><br />LOL - something like that... I never said it all had to look intelligently designed.<br /><br />I always scratched my head at Epigenetics... and considered it real enough but similarly exuberantly redundant.<br /><br />But getting back to your "vital"... why cannot those lineages that manage to successfully prune excess deleterious DNA be different than those lineages who only mange to rein in or suppress excess deleterious DNA?<br /><br />... meaning in some lineages facultative heterochromatin plays an vital function that is lethal when out of control?<br /><br />Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-25268997308626057782015-06-05T06:21:03.761-04:002015-06-05T06:21:03.761-04:00Shorter photosynthesis:
KevNick, before I believe...Shorter photosynthesis:<br /><br />KevNick, before I believe your explanation, you must marshall evidence proving the Cat in the Hat did not create life, the universe, and everything.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-40388692065256022882015-06-05T01:40:27.394-04:002015-06-05T01:40:27.394-04:00Soooo, where's the evidence of divine magic in...Soooo, where's the evidence of divine magic instantly creating fully formed and living organisms? I mean, you religionuts sure do like to babble about the "lack of evidence" for the origin of life, but where's the demonstration of instantaneous magical creation by god? I'm sure you can repeat it in the laboratory with some intense prayer-sessions, right? Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07670550711237457368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-80874661847801822162015-06-05T01:25:43.959-04:002015-06-05T01:25:43.959-04:00Tom Mueller: perhaps we are witnessing a level of ...Tom Mueller: <i>perhaps we are witnessing a level of gene regulation that is exuberantly redundant.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Professor_Lucifer_Butts.gif" rel="nofollow">Rube Goldberg regulation</a>?Piotr Gąsiorowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339278493073512102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-23708617633768286632015-06-04T20:38:37.894-04:002015-06-04T20:38:37.894-04:00Gary! Oh! Im so impressed! Now that's a model!...Gary! Oh! Im so impressed! Now that's a model!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-15798782229414202182015-06-04T20:35:13.954-04:002015-06-04T20:35:13.954-04:00Gary,
Your delusions of grandeur are astounding. ...Gary,<br /><br />Your delusions of grandeur are astounding. Go do some "science" on the "new computer model." Go! Now! Somebody might publish before you! Run! Become famous for something other than your ridiculous claims! Oh, wait, the "science" is exactly about your ridiculous claims. Hum, hum. No way out for you. You're not about to discover humility and realize that you've been just one more idiot who thinks too highly of himself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-84663489417220879202015-06-04T19:39:17.483-04:002015-06-04T19:39:17.483-04:00I'll just let you and the others wallow, while...I'll just let you and the others wallow, while I get some science work done on the new computer model. I do though hope you give a scientific answer to this, as opposed to one of your religious one:<br /><br />http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-insulation-theory-of-junk-dna.html?showComment=1433459962181#c1772923382052723978Gary Gaulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925297296758439900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-5055677458167762852015-06-04T19:24:20.092-04:002015-06-04T19:24:20.092-04:00And yes the same same circuit (labeled for animal ...And yes the same same circuit (labeled for animal brains) is applicable to genetics.<br /><a href="https://sites.google.com/site/intelligenceprograms/Home/Causation.png" rel="nofollow">(Intelligent) Causation.png</a>Gary Gaulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925297296758439900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-17729233820527239782015-06-04T19:19:22.181-04:002015-06-04T19:19:22.181-04:00This is the "model" that works:
Intelli...This is the "model" that works: <br /><a href="https://sites.google.com/site/intelligenceprograms/Home/SimpleCircuit.jpg" rel="nofollow">Intelligence System Circuit</a><br /><br />Go ahead and show me how you determined that this circuit diagram came from religion.Gary Gaulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925297296758439900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-30841196207582673892015-06-04T19:19:21.903-04:002015-06-04T19:19:21.903-04:00Gary,
re:
I'm not impressed by the "natur...Gary,<br />re:<br /><i>I'm not impressed by the "natural selection did it" answers that may look smart to you but to others who need real answers it's a brush-off.</i><br /><br />Have you ever managed a single post without shoving your foot into your mouth?<br /><br />I think it safe to say that those who in fact understand the science here are not convinced that selection had anything to do with genome expansion but rather genome expansion gives every appearance to have occurred in small populations despite presumable absent or even negative selection coefficients.<br /><br />Do you understand the relationship between population size and selection? It's a bit mathy.<br /><br />If you in fact understood the discussion, you would realize that Claudiu and I are playing advocati diaboli, although I admit (as a aging and non-current high school teacher) I am out of my depth and should be doing a better job.<br /><br />Where is Diogenes when you need him?<br /><br />Somebody, please get this Gary off my back!Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-2947374520872991082015-06-04T19:04:07.531-04:002015-06-04T19:04:07.531-04:00KevNick,
With that kind of a crappy story you sur...KevNick,<br /><br />With that kind of a crappy story you sure are an imbecile. Nobody is expelled from school for being an idiot like yourself. You could fail a course for not understanding what you're supposed to learn, but not expelled. You didn't go to school, did you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-37598352709571525012015-06-04T19:03:59.978-04:002015-06-04T19:03:59.978-04:00re:
…If so much extra DNA in humans and most other...re:<br /><i>…If so much extra DNA in humans and most other eukaryotes has hidden but vital functions, how on earth can it be absent in some species?</i><br /><br />Of course we are again rehashing... the keyword is <b> vital</b>... perhaps some phenomena are very real, yet neither "vital" nor "universal"<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/ond9v9h<br /><br />I was always intrigued by Ptashne's lament, that much of what we consider scientific conventional wisdom is in fact extrapolation from ecdysozoa models, as just one for example.Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-31006631226007246582015-06-04T18:53:02.282-04:002015-06-04T18:53:02.282-04:00Hi Piotr
I think I understand you as indicated in...Hi Piotr<br /><br />I think I understand you as indicated in my own two rebuttals to Gary Gaulin immediately above.<br /><br />Re:<br /><i>…If so much extra DNA in humans and most other eukaryotes has hidden but vital functions, how on earth can it be absent in some species? <br /></i><br />I am going on a limb here… but as I attempted to explain to Georgi (admittedly very clumsily) perhaps we are witnessing a level of gene regulation that is exuberantly redundant.<br /><br />Cf: http://tinyurl.com/pejta6n<br /><br />So to answer your question: perhaps some lineages have hit the sweet spot in their ability to prune TEs and need not resort to reining in TEs with facultative heterochromatin. <br /><br />I apologize for blurting my confusion in public. I will restate my line of thought:<br /><br /><i>…imagine the host reining in or shutting down these stretches of DNA by turning on facultative heterochromatin, but only when gene expression controlled by that particular enhancer is not needed. Initially, this response evolved as host defense to TE mutagenesis. At some later point in time, facultative heterochromatin and the whole epigenetics story became co-opted as an exhuberant and redundant level of gene regulation also maintained by selection; ergo my invocation of “exaptation”.<br /><br />Any such sequence sequence is also “under some level of constraint”, but only at a lineage specific level. Different lineages will have different sequences because different lineages had different TEs. I was thinking of course specifically of human Alu and murine B1.<br /><br />The important bit: such sequences can vary greatly in length while still performing the same “function” of facultative heterochromatin addressing Gregory's C-value enigma.</i><br /><br />I find most frustrating my inability to convince Georgi and others present that facultative heterochromatin may <b>conceivably </b>represent an exaptation for a subsequent and exuberantly redundant level of gene control.<br /><br />Let's try this from a different angle:<br /><br />Is it possible that epigenetics is a phenomenon common in some lineages but absent in others?<br />Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-83566834112778499032015-06-04T18:45:37.777-04:002015-06-04T18:45:37.777-04:00KevNick,
That we are mammals doesn't mean tha...KevNick,<br /><br />That we are mammals doesn't mean that every life form is a mammal. That we are primates doesn't mean that every life form is a primate. That we have a lot of junk DNA doesn't mean that every life form has that much junk DNA, or that no other organism can have more, even much more.<br /><br />You guys would gain a lot of respect if only you did some actual thinking. Don't get me wrong. Why does this or that organism have a lot of junk and that other so little are interesting questions, but you ask pretending that organisms with different amounts of junk somehow prove junk DNA wrong. That's your problem. You don't try and understand. You don't care about understanding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-30914093732256064962015-06-04T18:42:24.097-04:002015-06-04T18:42:24.097-04:00I'm not impressed by the "natural selecti...I'm not impressed by the "natural selection did it" answers that may look smart to you but to others who need real answers it's a brush-off.Gary Gaulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925297296758439900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-15339338365598553112015-06-04T18:31:28.215-04:002015-06-04T18:31:28.215-04:00@ Gary
re:
"You are very insulting."
...@ Gary<br /><br />re:<br /><br /><i> "You are very insulting."</i><br /><br />Excuse me? <br /><br /><b> GaryGaulin :</b><i>...this forum is so behind the times in science they have become scientifically irrelevant. </i><br /><br />Cue Diogenes, stage right...Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-53725584256165146482015-06-04T18:24:14.770-04:002015-06-04T18:24:14.770-04:00KevNick,
Somebody gave you lots of explanations a...KevNick,<br /><br />Somebody gave you lots of explanations above. I guess you did not really want to read answers, so you left and came back just to say nobody answered without checking first.<br /><br />What makes you think that we should have evidence that no intelligence was involved before thinking that life arose out of natural processes? What makes you think that it is not you who needs evidence that your imaginary being exists before being able to propose that this being made life? What makes you think that just because you believe that being to be real, we would just as easily imagine that some god did this or that? Imaginary beings have this nasty characteristic that makes them non-answers: they are imaginary! That you believe them to be real doesn't mean that it is just as easy for the rest of us to imagine that they might just be real. That doesn't mean that because we don't know something we will think that maybe they're real.<br /><br />Think about it with honesty. You might not like it, but that being you believe to be real is clearly imaginary to me. Why would I think that it is an answer to something I don't know? Wouldn't it make sense that evidence that this being exists should be presented before I could consider this being to be an answer?<br /><br />Now, of course, I think that you don't care. I doubt that you will read what I wrote because you don't come for answers. You just come to express your anger at our disbelief.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-84026854495755319742015-06-04T18:13:32.371-04:002015-06-04T18:13:32.371-04:00KevNick this forum is so behind the times in scien...KevNick this forum is so behind the times in science they have become scientifically irrelevant. But you might like this interesting bit of news, from one of the places where intelligence and conscious are being studied:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.newswise.com/articles/anesthesia-points-to-deeper-level-quantum-channels-as-brain-sites-for-consciousness" rel="nofollow">Center for Consciousness Studies, University of Arizona, Department of Anesthesiology - "Anesthesia Points to Deeper Level ‘Quantum Channels’ as Origins of Consciousness"</a><br /><br />The frequency range they are discussing is around the near-IR range, which leads to this information on cell becoming even more valuable than it was before:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.basic.northwestern.edu/g-buehler/FRAME.HTM" rel="nofollow">CELL INTELLIGENCE - Guenter Albrecht-Buehler, Ph.D., Robert Laughlin Rea Professor Emeritus of Cell Biology, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago</a> <br /><br />All the evidence still points towards new forms of intelligence just waiting to be discovered. This forum is now a great place to miss all the science fun, happening elsewhere. Gary Gaulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925297296758439900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-43634292445538535012015-06-04T17:39:51.024-04:002015-06-04T17:39:51.024-04:00I guess nobody even bother to seal my mouth with a...I guess nobody even bother to seal my mouth with at least one piece of evidence that convinced them that life originated without the need of superior intelligence. <br /><br />What a shame!<br /><br />I take it, as I knew before, there is no further need to challenge Moran that their whole "science" is without any foundation. What else is there but belief? Prove me wrong morons....Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-74240649799518744092015-06-04T17:28:44.493-04:002015-06-04T17:28:44.493-04:00KevNick,
The fact there are some eukaryotes with ...KevNick,<br /><br />The fact there are some eukaryotes with very little junk DNA only highlights the fact that junk DNA is really junk rather than "mystery DNA: function unknown". The cost of having a lot of it is not strictly equal zero, so one can expect selection <i>against</i> junk DNA, but this selection is so weak that in most circumstances it turns out to be ineffective: junk accumulates too fast to be got rid of. However, in some organisms (for various reasons) the pressure to maintain a smaller and more "streamlined" genome is non-negligible and leads to the reduction of junk DNA. How would <b>you</b> explain the fact that some organisms can do bloody well without much DNA beyond what's known to be necessary for coding and regulation? If so much extra DNA in humans and most other eukaryotes has hidden but vital functions, how on earth can it be absent in some species?Piotr Gąsiorowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339278493073512102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-7847233533481101062015-06-04T17:12:51.897-04:002015-06-04T17:12:51.897-04:00Thanks for the advise pest.
I've been there...Thanks for the advise pest. <br /><br /> I've been there. I was delusional like Moran and his herds of followers. I have always trusted scientists because my whole family although well educated believed in this crap.. I got curious when my biology prof returned my test. Long story short, I was expelled and my family rejected me at 13.Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-45599930788831953932015-06-04T17:09:48.326-04:002015-06-04T17:09:48.326-04:00Tom I was talking about "systematics" as...Tom I was talking about "systematics" as in "systems biology": <br /><br /><i>Systems biology is the computational and mathematical modeling of complex biological systems. An emerging engineering approach applied to biomedical and biological scientific research, systems biology is a biology-based inter-disciplinary field of study that focuses on complex interactions within biological systems, using a holistic approach (holism instead of the more traditional reductionism) to biological and biomedical research. Particularly from year 2000 onwards, the concept has been used widely in the biosciences in a variety of contexts. For example, the Human Genome Project is an example of applied systems thinking in biology which has led to new, collaborative ways of working on problems in the biological field of genetics. One of the outreaching aims of systems biology is to model and discover emergent properties, properties of cells, tissues and organisms functioning as a system whose theoretical description is only possible using techniques which fall under the remit of systems biology. These typically involve metabolic networks or cell signaling networks.</i><br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_biology<br /><br />You are very insulting.Gary Gaulinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10925297296758439900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-961858417306252292015-06-04T17:03:36.076-04:002015-06-04T17:03:36.076-04:00Doesn't it bother you Larry, to be so confiden...Doesn't it bother you Larry, to be so confident about your junk DNA theory, that you perhaps might be wrong? There are complex organisms almost without jDNA? How do you Ex this LM?Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.com