I suspected that Cech is opposed to junk DNA and that suspicion is confirmed in his new book The Catalyst.
Cech then goes on to say that that these mysterious RNAs are long non-coding RNAs or lncRNAs and he mentions a few lncRNAs that have a known biological function. This is misleading because it doesn't distinguish between real functional lncRNAs and spurious transcripts that have no function. By calling them all lncRNAs, he implies that they might have a function thus ruling out the null hypothesis of non-function. It would be better to say that some of these transcripts may turn out to be lncRNAs.Although we can't see it, we know that dark matter matters, at least when it comes to thinking about astronomy. As it turns out, our genome also largely consists of "dark matter." The coding regions of all the human genes that specify proteins make up only about 2 percent of our genome. When we add the introns that interrupt those coding regions—the sequences that are spliced out after the DNA is transcribed into the precursors to mRNA—we account for another 24 percent. That leaves about three-quarters of the genome that is "dark matter." For decades this 75 percent was dismissed as "junk DNA" because whatever function it had, if any, was invisible to us.
But as the technologies for sequencing RNA have improved, scientists have discovered that most of this dark-matter DNA is in fact transcribed into RNA. Some portion of this DNA is copied into RNA in the brain, other portions in muscle, or in the heart, or in the sex organs. It’s only when we add up the RNAs made in all the tissues of the body that we see the true diversity of human RNAs. The total number of RNAs made from DNA’s "dark matter" has been estimated to be several hundred thousand. These are not messenger RNAs, but rather noncoding RNAs—the same general category as ribosomal RNA, transfer RNA, telomerase RNA, and microRNAs. But what they’re doing is still, for the most part, a mystery.
He is not unaware of the fact that others may disagree with his speculations and I have to give him credit for at least bringing it up.
As a result, many scientists do not share my enthusiasm for these RNAs. They think that RNA polymerase, the enzyme that synthesizes RNA from DNA, makes mistakes and sometimes copies junk DNA into junk RNA. A more scholarly description of such RNAs might explain them away as "transcriptional noise"—the idea being, again, that RNA polymerase isn't perfect. It sometimes sits down on the wrong piece of DNA and copies it into RNA, and that RNA may have no function. I readily admit that some of those lncRNAs may in fact turn out to be noise, berift of function, signifying nothing.
However, I'll point out that there was a time in the not-to-distant past when telomerae and micrRNAs and catalytic RNAs weren't understood. They hadn't been assigned any function. They, too could have been dismissed as "noise" or "junk." But now hundreds of research scientists go to annual conferences to talk about these RNAs, and biotech companies are trying to use them to develop the next generation of pharmaceuticals. Certainly one lesson we've learned from the story of RNA is never to underestimate its power. Thus, these lncRNAs are likely to provide abundant material for future chapters in the book of RNA.
This is a weak argument because it assumes that there's no evidence for junk DNA. He describes it as "dark matter" thus laying the groundwork for future discoveries that might find function. However, 90% of the genome is not dark matter; it is junk DNA and there's abundant evidence to support that claim. Cech should not be dismissing the fact that these unknown transcripts come from a part of the genome that's junk DNA. He has to deal with that if he wants to be credible.
He's also ignoring the glaring issues with most of these transcripts. They have been well-documented in the scientific literature (Palazzo and Lee, 2015) and I cover them in my book [Chapter 8: Noncoding Genes and Junk RNA]. The points that need explaining are ...- Most of the transcripts are present at very low abundance, often less than one copy per cell.
- The RNAs are not conserved. Homologous regions in related species are not transcribed. Furthermore, there's no evidence that these regions are subject to purifying selection.
- Most of the transcripts are confined to the nucleus of cells and they are turned over rapidly, just as you would expect if they are spurious transcripts.
- After several decades of intensive study, only a small number of these transcripts in any one species have been shown to have a biological function. That doesn't mean that functions for some of them won't be found in the future but the lack of progress so far is consistent with the idea that most of them don't have a function and inconsistent with the idea that tens of thousands have a function that's just waiting to be discovered by all those reasearch scientists that go to the annual conferences.
For more information, read my blog posts on a 2024 paper by Nils Walter (Walter, 2024) where I discuss the evidence for and against the idea that our genome contains tens of thousands of non-coding genes.
- Nils Walter disputes junk DNA: (1) The surprise
- Nils Walter disputes junk DNA: (2) The paradigm shaft
- Nils Walter disputes junk DNA: (3) Defining 'gene' and 'function'
- Nils Walter disputes junk DNA: (4) Different views of non-functional transcripts
- Nils Walter disputes junk DNA: (5) What does the number of transcripts per cell tell us about function?
- Nils Walter disputes junk DNA: (6) The C-value paradox
- Nils Walter disputes junk DNA: (8) Transcription factors and their binding sites
- Nils Walter disputes junk DNA: (9) Reconciliation
Note: It should come as no surprise that the Intelligent Design Creationists have picked up on Cech's views and claim him as one more example of a leading scientist who agrees with their view that most of the human gnome is functional. [Nobelist Thomas Cech on “Junk RNA”] They also quote him as confirming their crazy claim that the 'false' idea of junk DNA retarded scientific progress.
Walter, N.G. (2024) Are non‐protein coding RNAs junk or treasure? An attempt to explain and reconcile opposing viewpoints of whether the human genome is mostly transcribed into non‐functional or functional RNAs. BioEssays:2300201. [doi: 10.1002/bies.202300201]Palazzo, A.F. and Lee, E.S. (2015) Non-coding RNA: what is functional and what is junk? Frontiers in genetics 6:2(1-11). [doi: 10.3389/fgene.2015.00002]
21 comments :
Sorry Larry, could you name me at least one acuurate well _known example of surplus transcripts?
I did not know anything about this person, but I found that he had written a few books about the RNA world. That is too bad for me since I want to learn more about that subject but now I don’t know if I could trust his objectivity about it. I don’t understand how someone with an education could confidently go down a rabbit hole of assumptions that a thing must have agency, for surely a thing would not be here simply because random stuff happens. Junk DNA here, lab leak theory there ….
I think we are still silly monkeys. Long ago, a rustling breeze through the grass would be best assumed to be a tiger creeping up on us rather than the purposeless stirring of the wind. The assumption of agency to unknown things had fitness benefits back then because if the stirring was indeed from a tiger, we could survive another day by running from it. But if the phenomenon was merely a breeze after all, our fleeing had little fitness consequences.
But now we live in our own carefully engineered environments. Tiger-less, and well fed. But we still find different ways to be monkeys, perceiving purpose out of randomness.
@Mehrshad I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase it?
I've Just asked you to reference me an example of JUNK RNA?
Mehrshad,
Larry shouldn't have to. It should the default assumption for any sequence that isn't conserved over evolutionary time and isn't currently under purifying selection, i.e. for 90% of the human genome. That way, we might miss a few sequences that have very recently come under selection, but that would be at most a small fraction of the 90%.
@Mehrshad What you're asking for is for me to prove that something does not have a function. You should know the problems with asking someone to prove a negative.
However, we have plenty of examples of transcripts from pseudogenes and these look very much like junk RNA to any reasonable person. Our genome is littered with dead transposons and dead viruses (>50%) and these all had active promoters at one time. A lot of the transcripts come from those promoters. Because we have good evidence that a large part of the genome is junk it's not unreasonable to conclude that a low level of transcription from those regions are junk.
It's also the only reasonable default hypothesis.
We know that when you add random pieces of DNA to a genome it will be transcribed at a low level. We understand this because we've been studying RNA polymerase and promoters for over 50 years. This is in all the textbooks. In our undergraduate lab we purify E. coli RNA polymerase and study it's transcriptional activity using calf thymus DNA because mammalian DNA must, by chance, contain lots of RNA polymerase binding sites.
Everything we know about introns suggests that they are good examples of junk RNA. Their sequences are non conserved, they are not under purifying selection, they are quickly removed from the primary transcript, and they are rapidly degraded. Introns account for about 40% of the human genome. Less than 50 nucleotides are required for splicing. Wouldn't you expect that someone might have found a function for all that extra RNA by now?
Sorry, but the main stream literature in areas of genetic and molecular biology doesn't support your claim Junk DNA. I read your recent book. you never mentioned the ( the structural information) in DNA like isochores
( the CG sequence of the genome which include the entire genome and makes no room of JUNK DNA.according to this recent paper.:
The "Genomic Code": DNA Pervasively Moulds Chromatin Structures Leaving no Room for "Junk"
Giorgio Bernardi
You also did not mentioned the strong correlation between genome size and cell size which convincingly explain the C _value paradox
Neutral theory and nearly neutral theory despite the fact that is a good theoretical model it has never had impricall support
Did I get it right you claims that much of the transcript that Encode discovered are just noise and junk but can't even name me a specific one of those useless ?!!
Mehrshad,
The "Genomic Code" fails the onion test. As Larry says, concentration solely on the genome of only one species leads to poor conclusions. And even if this explained the amount of DNA, it would still not explain the sequence, only the bulk composition.
And the same is true for the cell size correlation. Selection for genome size, if that is in fact what it is, doesn't prevent the bulk sequence from being junk.
And of course there's empirical support for neutral theory, for example in comparison of the rates of evolution in junk sequences vs. know functional sequences.
The (genomic code) function as organazing chromatin structure, replication initiation timing, neclesoume concentration, and etc... are higly sequence specific and it's included in all part of the genome in other animals genome especially warm blooded animals. Also exist.....
animal with bigger cells needs more genome content and subsequently longer genome.... Cell size is also very variable thought animal kingdom are you ganna jump to the conclusion that cells are junk?
There is no empricall evidence for genome size and effective population size
This paper for example.:
Effective population size does not explain long-term variation in genome size and transposable element content in animals
Alba MarinoGautier DebaeckerBenoit Nabholzshow 2 more
If the entire human genome is functional, how do fugu manage to get by without all that functional DNA?
And is the entire lungfish genome functional too?
I predict their cell size can esaliy explain why they are so much differ in genome size
Your two explanations contradict each other.
I should say that your three explanations contradict each other, since both the cell size and "genomic code" do not involve transcripts.
No you didn't get it right. It should be trivial to look up some extremely low-level transcript in some genomic database being produced once in a blue moon from some poorly conserved pseudogene. And even better of course when we can show some people lack the locus with no known functional effect (basically a sort of natural knock-out experiment). That's about as good evidence it is possible to get that it is nonfunctional.
But actually more important is that you fail to understand the value of a null hypothesis. The hypothesis that the vast majority of the genome undergoes functional transcription would be almost impossible to falsify, as any amount of experiments showing the transcript in question has no functional consequences that can be elucidated in experiment, can be explained away with the rationalization that the experimental conditions just fails to capture some hitherto not thought of circumstance that don't occur under experimental conditions. As such inordinate amounts of time and money could be potentially wasted trying to look for functions, until the end of time. That's why "it's all functional we just haven't discovered how" makes for a very poor scientific null hypothesis, it is practically almost impossible to falsify since any failure to find a function can be explained away.
In contrast, the null hypothesis that most transcripts are nonfunctional noise, is easily falsified simply by showing the functional effect the transcript has. Once you've discovered the function, the observation can't be meaningfully explained away, and therefore nonfunctional junk makes for a much better and more practical scientific hypothesis.
It also much better explains both the lack of sequence conservation within populations and between species, the low level of transcriptional activity for most detected transcripts, the fact that most contributions to genome size come from selfish elements like ancient virus remnants and transposons, and the large variations in genome size between even ostensibly identical species.
Sorry but junk just has much better explanatory power, while also making for a much better scientific null hypothesis.
Does Sequence Conservation Provide Evidence for Biological Function?
If that was the case orphan genes are not functional because they are spesific to a species and have no homology but we know that's not the case
@Mershad
Such a straightforward error in your reasoning there which reveals you don't understand the word evidence. Lack of sequence conservation is indeed evidence for lack of function, but it is not proof.
Think of the classic analogy with blue and red marbles in a jar. Picking 10 marbles from the jar and seeing 7 of them are red is evidence for the hypothesis that more of the marbles in the jar are red, than are blue.
But it is entirely possible to pick 20 more and discover that 14 of these are blue.
Evidence just means a result is more likely on one hypothesis over another. As such lack of sequence conservation is still evidence of lack of function, it's just not absolutely certain in all circumstances, and orphan genes provide an exception.
I will also point out that @Mershad has confused @gerd korthof's question. Sequence conservation is indeed evidence for biological function, though that evidence could be deceiving us if function has recently been lost. Similarly, non-conservation is evidence against function, though that evidence could be deceiving us if function has recently been gained.
And of course many so-called orphan genes are homologous to non-genic sequences in related species, which suggests that they did indeed gain function recently.
I see that @gerd korthof was attempting to cite a paper with that question as its title. The paper makes a little bit of a valid point, that functionless sequences can still receive deleterious mutations, and so may be subject to a form of purifying selection. But is that selection as likely to preserve a sequence as selection that maintains a function? I doubt it.
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