PZ Myers posted an article about the high cost of textbooks [Textbooks, again]. He says,
Everyone in academia knows it: textbook publishers abuse the system. Jim Fiore decries the high cost of college textbooks, and I have to agree completely. Basic textbooks at the lower undergraduate levels do not need a new edition every year or two, not even in rapidly changing fields like biology.There are two points here. The cost of textbooks is determined by the market and lots of other factors. As a general rule, the publishers are not making outrageous profits on individual college textbooks. They try to make their money on volume.
Most people don't understand that a large part of the cost of a textbook is due to the mark-up at the retailers. Much of the rest of the price is due to the cost of production and marketing. Look at the list of people who contribute to a textbook. You'll usually find them listed on the back of the title page. There are artists and editors as well as people who manage the project and people who market the books. Each new edition of a major textbook like biology can cost close to $1 million dollars these days. You have to sell more than 20,000 copies just to recover the production costs. (Really popular books will sell more than 100,000 copies but the difference isn't all profit.)
So let's understand and agree that the original price of a textbook is not unreasonable. My biochemistry textbook in 1965 was Conn & Stumpf and it cost $9.95. This works out to $65.80 in 2007 dollars using the handy-dandy inflation calculator on the US Dept. of Labor website. The 1965 textbook was much smaller, covered less material, and had no color figures. Modern biochemistry textbooks cost about $120-150 and they are very much better than the books published 40 years ago.
Even if we didn't want to make substantive changes in each edition and even if there were no second-hand market, we would still be forced to update our books because of pressure from competitors. Those other authors are hard at work revising and improving their books and if you don't follow suit you'll soon end up having no market share. What I'm saying here is that there are many reasons for new editions and it's very simplistic to attribute the cause to ripping off students. That's not how it works.
PZ's second point is more complex. Textbooks come out with new editions every few years. A typical cycle is four years—not the "year or two" that PZ suggests. While it is true that some of the pressure to produce new editions comes from a desire to eliminate the second-hand book market, that's not the only reason. There really is new material to add and new ways to approach the subject. In my case we're into the 4th edition of my Principles of Biochemistry textbook. The dates of publication are: 1992, 1996, 2002, and 2006. The next edition is scheduled for 2010. We're just about to start work on it. The differences between these editions are not trivial: they're part of a plan to transform the way we teach biochemistry. This is not unusual.
Churning editions is just a way for the publisher to suck more money out of a captive audience. It makes it difficult for students to sell off their used textbooks, it gives faculty the headache of having to constantly update their assignments, and if you allow your students to use older editions, it means we have to maintain multiple assignments. It's extraordinarily annoying, and to no good purpose at the university (to great purpose at the publisher, though).This is simply not accurate. It's part of the urban myth about publishing. Everyone likes to blame someone else for the cost of textbooks.
I'm surprised that PZ would complain about having to update his assignments. You can't have it both ways, PZ. Either the new editions are trivial, in which case you don't have to change much, or they contain substantive changes, in which case your complaint about it being motivated to rip off students is unjustified. If you were using my textbook then be aware of the fact that my goal is to get you to change the way you've been teaching biochemistry. That's why I have new editions.
PZ, it sounds like you would never consider switching textbooks because it would be too much trouble for you to change your teaching. Is this a correct assumption?
On the plus side of their ledgers, though, I also urge the students to keep their textbooks once the course is over. These are valuable reference books that they may well find handy throughout their college careers and in their life afterwards. I've never quite understood the rush to dispose of those books the instant the semester ends — I kept my undergraduate biology and chemistry books until they fell apart (another gripe: the increasingly cheap bindings of these books), and I still have several of my old history texts on my shelves.I'm with you on that one, PZ. I have all my old college textbooks. They are my friends. I never, ever, thought of selling them. They are full of notes in the margins and text highlights that reflect how I learned the material and what was important or controversial. I don't understand why students want to get rid of their textbooks when the course ends. Unless, of course, they never really cared about the subject in the first place and just needed a grade to graduate or get into medical school. But that's probably being too cynical.
No, I'm willing to change my teaching, and I pretty regularly do change (and I hope improve) my approaches.
ReplyDeleteMy objection is that too often the changes are trivial nuisances. I want them to read chapter 21, for instance, but in the last edition it was chapter 22, and before that it was chapter 20, and the content is the same but maybe they've added a prettier figure.
Some updates, yes. Most are trivialities that get in my way.
Another problem with introductory texts: they try to cram everything in. In the last edition, for instance, our intro text added a very nice chapter on evolution and development...which did me no good in that particular course. Since semesters don't seem to be expanding beyond 15 weeks, a lot of the expansion of the textbooks, while certainly justifiable in terms of the growing size of biology, aren't addressing the core needs of the curriculum. And at the same time, when I do teach a course that discusses evo-devo, the old intro text isn't detailed enough for what we do.
Aaah, Conn and Stumpf... $7.20 Australian for the 1972 third edition. It's still on my shelf, and still useful precisely because its explanations and diagrams are simpler than the newer bigger books.
ReplyDeleteOne non-trivial advantage is that it's small enough to be an easy-to-pick-up paperback, not a massive tome that needs two hands.
I have to admit I never really saw the point of textbooks in general -- I always waited on making the decision on whether to purchase the book or not until I could figure out whether it would be actually useful; in over half my classes I found that the lectures weren't really on the same topics as the textbook, and I'd be better off just paying attention in class rather than buying another telephone directory sized albatross.
ReplyDeleteI much preferred courses where the professor prepared an informal set of lecture notes that could be purchased at the university bookstore for a few dollars, and were much more relevant anyway despite not having pretty color pictures.
And for reference, these days I'm far more likely to try to look something up on the web rather than looking it up in a book -- and I'd expect that the undergrads of today (who grew up with the Internet after all) are even more likely to do that than I.
I don't understand why students want to get rid of their textbooks when the course ends. Unless, of course, they never really cared about the subject in the first place and just needed a grade to graduate or get into medical school. But that's probably being too cynical.
ReplyDeleteProbably; it could just be that several hundred dollars per semester is a lot of money for most undergraduates.
One non-trivial advantage is that it's small enough to be an easy-to-pick-up paperback, not a massive tome that needs two hands.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I've purchased (for "fun" reading) several Dover paperback reprints such as Donald Sands' "Introduction to crystallography" -- much more manageable than oversized hardcovers,
OZ Myers says,
ReplyDelete... a lot of the expansion of the textbooks, while certainly justifiable in terms of the growing size of biology, aren't addressing the core needs of the curriculum.
Interesting. As it turns out, we're debating this right now within the American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. The questions are: (a) what is a core curriculum, and (b) should textbooks restrict coverage to this core?
Here's the problem. The answer to the second question would be "yes" if there was an answer to the first question. Unfortunately, there are as many definitions of "core curriculum" as there are Professors. Textbook authors have to satisfy them all.
Jonathan Badger says,
ReplyDeleteI much preferred courses where the professor prepared an informal set of lecture notes that could be purchased at the university bookstore for a few dollars, and were much more relevant anyway despite not having pretty color pictures.
I can understand that attitude. It's perfectly compatible with the concept that getting good grades in the main objective. Why bother studying something that isn't in the lectures?
Most Professors buy into that attitude. They firmly believe that their lectures are accurate and sufficient to convey the key concepts. In many cases, they don't want to run the risk of confusing students with a textbook that might contradict their lectures.
However, if a student really wants an education then it is in their best interest to get another perspective on the material. Sometimes this is helpful because it gives them another way of looking at the same material. Sometimes it's helpful because the textbook will present a different opinion.
I always used textbooks when I took courses. Sometimes I used more than one. But then, I wasn't so much interested in grades as in finding out what was right. Most of my undergraduate Professors encouraged that attitude and so do I in the courses I teach today. Sadly, I seem to be in a tiny minority.
And for reference, these days I'm far more likely to try to look something up on the web rather than looking it up in a book -- and I'd expect that the undergrads of today (who grew up with the Internet after all) are even more likely to do that than I.
With all due respect, Jonathan, that's an astonishing thing to say. The internet is a mess. Not only is it difficult to find information, it's difficult to confirm it's accuracy. There's so much contradictory information out there that a student has no hope of sorting it out.
I challenge you to find out from the internet whether ATP concentrations can regulate the activity of an enzyme or how plant photosynthesis is related to bacterial photosynthesis. Give it your best shot. You can find the answers in about five minutes by reading a biochemistry textbook—especially mine. :-)
Ian B Gibson
ReplyDeleteProbably; it could just be that several hundred dollars per semester is a lot of money for most undergraduates.
I think we all know that. Let me rephrase the question: I don't understand why students would want to give up their textbooks for the relatively trivial savings of $50. To me, knowledge is much more valuable than that.
I'd like to provide a slightly different, UK based perspective here. Most of our lectures were accompanied by photocopies of powerpoint slides that we were free to annotate as we wished. Along with these would be references to primary literature (or the encouragement to look things up in the literature ourselves). Relative speaking, the use of a textbook was rare because engagement with papers was encouraged at a very early stage.
ReplyDeleteTextbooks were pretty redundant, except as a resource to quickly look up the odd issue or skim a brief overview. I agree with this approach; to my mind textbooks primarily belong at high-school level. University education should be at the next step up. I'm sure there are textbooks that offer material at a high level (I'm not trying to malign them), but papers should be the main port of call.
I think this gets into a wider issue about the differences between a North American and a British style university education (warning, generalisations to follow). I spent a year of my undergrad degree (in Geology) at UC Santa Cruz and in my experience there was relatively little engagement with literature and consequently much less emphasis on paper writing and critiquing published work. This presumably arises because of the greater weight placed on textbooks. On the opposite side, there was a much broader education as well as greater emphasis on maths and problem solving, something we badly lack over here (I used to have courses start with the "soothing" pronouncement of "Don't worry, there won't be much maths"). I actually favour the North American approach (or at least my side of it) as I think it produces more rounded students (from my experience of postgrad life on both sides of the Atlantic). However I believe that much more time should be devoted to getting to grips with the real meat of scientific debate.
Thats how I see it anyway.
I very much agree with Larry on the subject of keeping textbooks. Those that I do have, I would never consider giving them away. I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to do that!
ReplyDeleteAnd for reference, these days I'm far more likely to try to look something up on the web rather than looking it up in a book -- and I'd expect that the undergrads of today (who grew up with the Internet after all) are even more likely to do that than I.
ReplyDeleteNooooooooo! I trust the web about as far as I can throw it (not far obviously!). Undergraduate essays in my department are inadmissable if they reference wikipedia. Obviously there are ways around this, but it sounds out that message that there are relatively trustworthy source of information (papers and textbooks) and then there is the internet.
I can understand that attitude. It's perfectly compatible with the concept that getting good grades in the main objective. [...] I always used textbooks when I took courses. Sometimes I used more than one. But then, I wasn't so much interested in grades as in finding out what was right
ReplyDeleteOh, please. I think the fact that I went on to get my doctorate and am now an active scientist more than adequately demonstrates that I wasn't just into grades as an undergraduate. I don't think buying textbooks can be considered loyalty pledges to learning or science.
The internet is a mess. Not only is it difficult to find information, it's difficult to confirm it's accuracy
I agree that's there's lots of nonsense on the web, and I'm not a big fan of the Wikipedia populist philosophy that believes that expert opinion shouldn't be privileged, but I disagree that it's hard to confirm accuracy -- for example, it isn't hard to see if a page hosted at a university has been written by a professor or researcher in a relevant subject. Of course they could be wrong on their page, but then the same sorts of people could be wrong in their textbooks.
I challenge you to find out from the internet whether ATP concentrations can regulate the activity of an enzyme or how plant photosynthesis is related to bacterial photosynthesis. Give it your best shot
Okay, at 1 second, the top hit to the search "evolution of bacterial photosynthesis" (no quotes) was
http://www.bio.indiana.edu/~bauerlab/origin.html
And "atp regulation enzyme" (no quotes) yielded lots of articles like Regulation of X by ATP -- if all a student wanted to know is *if* enzymes are regulated by ATP, they could correctly conclude yes.
Larry is obviously really proud of his own textbook - understandably so. He probably takes much more care in his book than most - 4 years between editions and trying to keep it as up to date as possible. However, in my experience, a lot of the textbooks out there just don't live up to that standard. In first year, we had an introductory chemistry textbook that came out with a new edition every year, didn't add new material but changed the order of the material around so it would be difficult to use older editions, and didn't fix errors in the given example problems year after year. It was a total piece of exploitative crap.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, there are as many definitions of "core curriculum" as there are Professors. Textbook authors have to satisfy them all.
ReplyDeleteThis could be an illusion caused by adhering to the buggywhip model of huge, all-inclusive hardcover textbooks. Why not a series of relatively modest softcover monographs covering, in manageable chunks, all the areas that somebody considers essential to intro biology, intro biochemistry, or whatever- with faculty choosing only those covering the topics they actually want to teach. More radically, why in this post-Gutenberg age where every student at any decent college has a laptop and a fast Internet connection, do we still need printed science textbooks at all? Are they still around merely because nobody's quite figured out yet how to make a buck off Web-based resources? I don't know, but I wonder.
I certainly don't pretend to have all the answers, but it seems to me there needs to be a bit more question-asking.
Most people don't understand that a large part of the cost of a textbook is due to the mark-up at the retailers
ReplyDeleteWith respect, that's wrong. Textbooks are marked up only 20% by college bookstores, compared to the 40% on regular, non-textbooks. That barely covers the cost of staff, shipping, etc.
Stevef says,
ReplyDeleteTextbooks were pretty redundant, except as a resource to quickly look up the odd issue or skim a brief overview. I agree with this approach; to my mind textbooks primarily belong at high-school level. University education should be at the next step up. I'm sure there are textbooks that offer material at a high level (I'm not trying to malign them), but papers should be the main port of call.
My approach to teaching biochemistry is to concentrate on fundamental concepts and ideas. Most of these are explained in the best textbooks.
Let me give you an example. In order to understand metabolism you need to understand and apply basic thermodynamic principles, redox reactions, enzyme kinetics, and reaction mechanism as well as the structure and organization of cells. In North America students do not get these fundamental concepts in high school so we need to spend a lot of time teaching them in introductory biochemistry. I takes me several lectures just to make clear the idea of flux in a pathway and why steady-state concentrations are at near-equilibrium values.
As you know, it would be impossible to convey these fundamental basic concepts just by reading a bunch of papers from the recent literature. The fact that you can have a course without textbooks in the UK must mean that every student knows about these principles before getting to university. That's very impressive.
When, in high school, did you learn about enzyme kinetics and the difference between noncompetitive and uncompetitive reactions? When did you learn that membrane-associated electron transport and photosynthesis are very similar processes? At what point did your high school teachers cover details of the weak interactions that hold the double helix together?
We're debating this issue right now in another forum. I'm defending the idea that undergraduates aren't reedy to read and appreciate the primary scientific literature. Even beginning graduate students have a hard time. Heck, I'm not even sure that some of my colleagues know how to do it!
Yes, there are lots of cool techniques in the papers. If that's all you want out of a paper then that's what you'll get. Don't expect to get a good grasp of concepts and ideas. If it were that easy then bloggers wouldn't be debating the interpretation of recent papers.
The debate boils down to this: what's the purpose of undergraduate education in biochemistry? If it's to train students in the practice of biochemistry then reading about the latest applications might do it. If it's to learn the basic principles of how life works at the molecular level then reading the latest scientific literature is a very inefficient way of accomplishing that goal.
Jonatan Badger says,
ReplyDeleteOkay, at 1 second, the top hit to the search "evolution of bacterial photosynthesis" (no quotes) was
Very funny. You just proved my point.
And "atp regulation enzyme" (no quotes) yielded lots of articles like Regulation of X by ATP -- if all a student wanted to know is *if* enzymes are regulated by ATP, they could correctly conclude yes.
The activity of enzymes inside the cell cannot be regulated by ATP because the concentration of ATP does not change significantly. How long did it take you to find that out on the internet?
Steve LaBonne asks,
ReplyDeleteMore radically, why in this post-Gutenberg age where every student at any decent college has a laptop and a fast Internet connection, do we still need printed science textbooks at all? Are they still around merely because nobody's quite figured out yet how to make a buck off Web-based resources? I don't know, but I wonder.
I certainly don't pretend to have all the answers, but it seems to me there needs to be a bit more question-asking.
We're asking the same questions. We know how to make money off web-based resources. What we don't know is how many students really want to give up a paper book that they can scribble on, highlight, and read on the subway.
I know I'm not interested in reading all my papers on a monitor. I print anything that's really interesting so I can make notes on it and carry it around in my bag until I digest the contents. I don't think this is because I'm old. I've been using computers on a regular basis for 39 years.
There's a huge advantage to having a web based book. It's much easier to update and correct, for example. The fact that nobody is moving in that direction very fast is not because publishers, and authors, will make less profit—although that's certainly a factor.
Richard said,
ReplyDeleteWith respect, that's wrong. Textbooks are marked up only 20% by college bookstores, compared to the 40% on regular, non-textbooks. That barely covers the cost of staff, shipping, etc.
Sorry if I misled. When I said that a large part of the cost was due to retailer markup I meant that 20%-40% was large.
My book sells in the bookstore at a markup of 28% over the publishers price. There's nothing wrong with this. Everyone needs to get their cut and there are expenses all along the line. I just don't want people to think textbook publishers are ripping everyone off. The market is very competitive and if the prices could be dropped significantly they would be.
Okay, at 1 second, the top hit to the search "evolution of bacterial photosynthesis" (no quotes) was
ReplyDelete[link removed by Larry]
Very funny. You just proved my point.
I don't get the joke. I found a detailed page on the phylogenetic relationship between bacterial and plant photosystems as the top link (and by Carl Bauer, author of over 100 papers on photosynthesis). You asked for "how plant photosynthesis is related to bacterial photosynthesis", and the tree in figure 3 answers that question.
The activity of enzymes inside the cell cannot be regulated by ATP because the concentration of ATP does not change significantly
That may be. But that's not what you asked, which was "whether ATP concentrations can regulate the activity of an enzyme", which is clearly yes.
As a student,
ReplyDeleteI would keep my textbook If either one of the below was true.
1)if I knew I was going for graduate school in that field itself.[ majority of students have no clue what they will end up doing few years down the road]
2)if I was passionate enough about the subject. [I have my grade 9 chemistry notes, but got rid of my physics text book as soon as the course was over]
3)if I actually read the textbook when I was taking the course, and *realized* the value of it.
Money and storage space being the common reasons, its not that we like to get rid of textbooks, but we just end up taking a lot of courses which we are not completely INTO!
One of the causes of increased textbook prices is the unfortunate (and in some states, illegal) practice of faculty selling their examination and instructor copies that have been received free from publishers. We call these comp copies (complimentary copies). While many of them are tamped "Not for resale", resellers have found that they are lucrative sources of profits since their agents usually purchase them for pennies on the dollar. Publishers should get these back, as they have been "loaned" in hopes of inducing a faculty member to adopt. When the faculty member sells a comp copy, there is no income earned by the publisher, no royalty by the author; the reseller often tapes over the not for resale sign and prices these at or close to the full retail price.
ReplyDeleteThe more such comp copies get into the market the less the publisher sells. Low sales of an edition is one of the factors that causes a new edition to be published.
Students could do themselves and the textbookindustry a favor by refusing to buy these copies, as attractive as they might be. They are uncomfortably like stolen goods; buying them is uncomfortably like receiving hot merchandise, and, in some states that have criminalized the resale of comp copies, the analogy is exact.
The other service, of course, is to keep your textbooks and not give into the temptation to reintroduce them into the used book market. That allows that market to use a new copy in place of a used one, gives the publisher and author their due, and provides a publisher a little more space in which to lower prices to compete better.
Just as the price of textbooks has spiraled up, in part as the result of used text sales, so it can spiral down as the result of steady new text sales. By the second year new copy sales of a one-year-old edition have dropped as low as 30% of the first year; by the third year it is 10% to vanishingly small. Therein lies a principal reason for new editions and high prices.
I'm Richard Hull, Executive Director of Text and Academic Authors Association. www.TAAonline.net