This man is John Tory. He's the leader of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party. Right now he's the leader of the Opposition but he's hoping to become Premier after the election on October 10, 2007.If elected, Tory promises to extend public funding to all religious schools in Ontario. Right now we fund the Roman Catholic Schools as a result of a deal struck at the time of Confederation. I favor abolishing this funding and restricting government funding to the public school system [One School System Network [OSSN]].
Today John Tory stuck his foot firmly in his mouth when he revealed his ignorance of evolution. John Cowan of The National Post—a conservative newspaper—reported it like this [John Tory on creationism, the theory of evolution and why ducks have wings].
It should be said that Ontario Progressive Conservative leader John Tory is usually a thoughtful, articulate guy. But this week, the man has had nothing but a mouthful of foot. First, he referred to the University of Ottawa as the “University of Zero.” Another stumble came today, during an event to promote Mr. Tory’s promise to extend public funding to faith-based schools. A radio reporter asked whether schools would be allowed to teach creationism. Mr. Tory responded: “The Christian-based school would have to teach the Ontario curriculum, which of course has a different explanation. It’s still called the theory of evolution, but they teach evolution in the Ontario curriculum, but they could also mention to children the fact that there are other theories out there that are part of some Christian beliefs.”Hmmm ... where have we heard that before? Do you know anyone who emphasizes that it's only a theory who isn't a creationist? Tory is in big trouble. He might get away with this in another country but here in Ontario he's going to look like a real fool.
Fortunately for him, his handlers got on the job real quick.
What Mr. Tory did not say was whether evolution would be taught as part of science class or religious studies -- which is, we submit, a pretty important distinction. So important that late this afternoon, the Conservative campaign issued the following press release:Nobody's going to buy that. Tory clearly questioned whether evolution is true by mentioning that it is a "theory" and other "theories" should be taught.JOHN TORY 2007 CAMPAIGN
STATEMENT OF CLARIFICATION
(Toronto, ON) – In an interview with reporters earlier today, John Tory was asked whether ‘creationism’ could be taught in faith-based schools, if they wished to receive funding under his proposed policy.
POINTS OF CLARIFICATION:
1.) The Ontario curriculum does not allow for creationism (or any other religious theory) to be taught in science classes in Ontario’s public schools.
2.) Mr. Tory clearly stated that any school to be included in the proposal must teach the Ontario curriculum.
3.) Mr. Tory’s proposal would allow creationism to be discussed only as part of religious studies programming, as is now the practice in Ontario’s publicly-funded Catholic schools.
Tory is running against the current Education Minister Kathleen Wynne (Liberal) in the riding of Don Valley West (Toronto). According to this article in the Canadian Press [ On eve of Ontario election, Conservative leader muses about creationism in schools] she nailed him on the issue.Education Minister Kathleen Wynne - who is running against Tory for her Toronto seat - said his comments prove his policy hasn't been properly thought out. Creationism is currently not part of the provincial science curriculum and isn't given the same weight as evolution, she said.The Canadian press is all over this: See this article from the Globe & Mail [Creationism raised as Ont. election issue], and this from Canada.com [John Tory grilled on faith-based schools proposal], and this from The Toronto Star [Tory ignites debate over creationism in schools].
Catholic schools may talk about creationism, Wynne said, but only in the context of a broader religious discussion.
"It's useful for students to have the opportunity to know the ideas that are out there and are part of our history," Wynne said.
"What we teach as the truth is the question. The scientific truths are the ones that are included in the Ontario curriculum. That's the curriculum that we support."
It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.
Is creationism really taught in Catholic schools in Canada, even "as part of religious studies programming"?
ReplyDeleteWhen I lived in Ontario in the 70s we said the Lord's Prayer every morning in school. Am I correct in assuming that isn't the case any more?
I once thought Tory was thoughtful, intelligent, and although a bit too conservative for me, was certainly worth a listen when he ran for mayor of T.O.
ReplyDeleteHe's really disappointed me lately. I thought he may have a chance against McGuinty, initially. With statements like these, though, he is shovelling his own hole.
Does anyone think there is a big enough 'religious/ creationist/ apathetic group' to buy this and support him? Is there enough of a contingent that wishes McGuinty out that they will overlook these policies and vote PC?
Exlextion
I haven't really been following Ontario politics over the summer and I thought the name was a joke at first. Very fitting, but it would have been funnier if he had been a Liberal.
ReplyDeleteWith all the press this issue has gotten in the States, I'm not really surprised that creationism is making a political power play. It's telling though, that it was was so promptly shot down and has become such an embarrassment.
We also have Catholic Schools here in the Yukon and yes, they pray and have religious intruction every day.
For the first time in my life, I'm voting Liberal, just because I'm scared of this nut Tory becoming Premier.
ReplyDeleteI was really angry when I read John Tory's comments in the Toronto Star this morning. The part about multiple "theories" tells me we still have a LONG way to go until the Canadian population as anything resembling basic science literacy.
ReplyDeleteOf course, unless you take Grade 12 University biology in Ontario, you don't actually learn much about evolution, unless your teacher makes a point to talk about it. I've been advocating its inclusion in either grade 9 or 10 science, which everyone has to take.
The impression I gather from the post is that his statement was not simply as case of him 'playing to his base'. This presumably means that he is most likely a genuine, actual creationist.
ReplyDeleteGood luck next month..
Ian,
ReplyDeleteI didn't really pursue biology in high school, but I did have to take all those religious courses at my Catholic high school.
What is probably meant by that statement is that in religion class, Catholic schools are allowed to claim that the creation of the universe is ultimately the work of God. This is typical of Catholic doctrine, which is a non-literal interpretation of the Bible, and is a type of Old Earth Creationism. Genesis is not interpreted as a blow-by-blow account of creation, but is a metaphor. Presumably, according to Catholic doctrine, God caused the Big Bang and evolution and continental drift and whatever else was necessary for the universe to end up the way it is now. (Catholicism tends be inconsistent about which parts of the Bible are literal and which are metaphor.)
Basically, in all other classes, Catholic schools are no different than public schools. You aren't taught religion in science, history, English or math (I don't think they can, legally), so I'm quite sure biology students in Ontario learn evolution. You only get that thin layer of religious indoctrination in religion class.
John Tory committed political suicide.
ReplyDeleteOh bother. But then, you knew O'Leary was hard at work up there. :)
ReplyDeleteFrom my experience in Catholic school, the only creationism we got was in the religion classes. The science classes were actually very good and treated evolution as fact (though we didn't dwell on evolution too much - the courses were more on cell functions than on evolution).
ReplyDeleteEven though I typically vote liberal, I was thinking of voting conservative because I wasn't impressed with the Liberals when they were in power. I guess that's out of the question now
"From my experience in Catholic school, the only creationism we got was in the religion classes."
ReplyDeleteI had Catholic Sunday and summer school in the elementary school years and went to a Catholic high school (and still am one) and I never got anything I recall as 'creationism'. If anyone was peddling creationism as science, I missed it to the extent that when I found out there were actually people who didn't accept evolution as the explanation for our origins it came as a complete surprise to me.
Perhaps things have deteriorated since I was in highschool in the early '70s.
Ian,
ReplyDeleteyour question has been answered well but for one part. I also, the 80's in elementary school was subjected to the pords prayer everyday. Moreover, my school administration would read me bible passages every single day in the morning and urge us to be good christians. Then we were handed out bibles (the new testament) and giuven a lecture about divinity and such....at a publically funded non-religious public school.
That was in the 80's.
By the time I got to the end of grade 6 and moved on to junior high, this was healthily abolished. There was no more mention of the bible and any religious baggage was annexed.
I look back in anger, and frustration, at those times when my friends and I were forced to sit and listen while our parents footed our bill.
They always seem to 'sneak' their religion in whenever they can.
Let my post be a reminder to check your spelling!
ReplyDeleteHappy days,
Catholics don't go for Creationism. The pope (current and past) has said officially numerous times that evolution is the best explanation. Catholics beleive that the bible speaks truth only with regard to salvation, not history or science.
ReplyDeleteCreationism is taught in Catholic schools. I went to a Catholic school for one year and was taught it. There is nothing wrong with teaching creationism as a religious which is what John Tory said. The leftist media has distorted what he said.
ReplyDeleteTory wants equal funding for all schools in Ontario. This is an egalitarian that those of the left would have jumped at, had the Liberal's proposed it. Currently our system has been described as discriminatory by the Supreme Court of Canada. The UN has chastised us for violating the equality provision of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.
In 2003 McGuinty said the school funding formula was broken and that he would fix it. Now he says it should stay the same. He wants you to pay for the public school system even if you don't send your kids to it. That is like asking you to pay for a car, even if you haven't boought it. McGuinty claims Ontario needs a strong public school system. Well if that is the case why doesn't his children go to it? You see McGuinty's religious denomination of Christianity is funded with tax payer money. Now that he has that, he doesn't want your religious school funded.
Professor what is the word for that? Isn't it HYPOCRITE?
I have read with interest the attack on Creationism in the media. John Tory did not bring up the subject. It was a reporter who brought up creationism as asked John Tory if he would allow religious schools to teach Creationism.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how John answered, he was dead. If he said no, religious schools may not teach their beliefs, no school would accept his deal. By answering yes, the secular media and the Ontario Liberals have expressed shock that he would allow a religious school to actually teach what they believe instead of a brand of Atheism.
We are told that religion and politics don’t mix but is would seem that the media enjoy bringing it up only to bash the person who does not publicly denounce religious views. Canada is now a very scary place for a person of religious faith.
Of course, Education Minister Kathleen Wynne said "What we teach as the truth is the question. The scientific truths are the ones that are included in the Ontario curriculum. That's the curriculum that we support."
There you have it! The truth, according to the Ontario Liberals, is that we live an atheistic universe that evolved. People who believe in God are wrong and deluded and should keep their delusions to themselves.
Now the scientific proof that we evolved is simple. We know we evolved because it is illegal to teach otherwise. Now what better evidence for evolution is there than that? Many scientists may disagree with this, like the famous list of 500 academics, but the Ontario Liberals and the Ontario media will make certain that no one knows about any dissent from atheism. If anyone is bold enough to disagree, we will simply call him or her an ignorant, religious fanatic.
Charter protections for freedom of religion, thought, belief or conscience are a total joke in Atheistic Ontario.
I find that media spin is always interesting. The fact is religion and science does not mix in Catholic schools. Opinion about creationism, or the term, should be left in a religious class. Let’s not try to nail John Tory, along with the other extreme zealots in right-winged America. I do believe that there should only be funding for one public system, removing funding from Catholic schools. I do not believe that you can force religion on anyone, however at the same time religious freedom must be protected. The problem is religious “folk” do not take time to understand the science of evolution and try to explain and answer the questions brought forth Darwinism. Science simply shows us fact, if is up to those in the various religious communities to understand and work with the fact. Hiding it in the sand does not make the issue go away. Although, I myself am a believer in a creator, evolution works fine for me. There is nothing wrong with religion, only just how you interpret it. I guess you can say that Star Trek episode showing aliens planting the seeds of humanity on earth is where I am coming from, however we should leave science-fiction for TV shows.
ReplyDeleteMark says,
ReplyDeleteNow the scientific proof that we evolved is simple. We know we evolved because it is illegal to teach otherwise. Now what better evidence for evolution is there than that? Many scientists may disagree with this, like the famous list of 500 academics, ...
I've seen a list that includes engineers, medical doctors, dentists, and chiropractors but very few academics and even fewer biologists. Is that the list you're referring to?
Is this what passes as evidence in your world?
anonymous asks,
ReplyDeleteProfessor what is the word for that? Isn't it HYPOCRITE?
Yes it is. I favour One School System. We should abolish the Catholic School system as soon as possible.
he gtapatriot says,
ReplyDeleteLet’s not try to nail John Tory, along with the other extreme zealots in right-winged America.
He deserves to be nailed. He didn't just say that creationism should be taught in religious schools. He said "It’s still called the theory of evolution" which is a standard creationist way of questioning evolution.