Jason Rosenhouse comments on the criticism of Sam Harris and on Josh Rosenau's take on the issue [Rosenau on Harris].
Here's a quote from Jason. I wish I had said this!
I find this all very frustrating. People like Harris point to specific, irrational fact claims made by certain religious traditions, establishes the harm that comes to society when large numbers of people believe those claims, and encourages people to think a bit more critically about religious beliefs. He is so militant about the subject that you know what he does? He writes books about it. He speaks publicly about it. And he tries to persuade people with nothing more formidable than rational argumentation.
For his trouble he is criticized for being extreme and intolerant. He is branded a fundamentalist. He is lectured for taking clearly stated and widely-held religious beliefs seriously, when everyone knows that real religion is all nuance and metaphor and paradoxically inexpressible cravings. He is told to shut up lest some ignoramus on the local school board hear what he is saying. He is told that he is the one sowing social discord, unlike all those religious folks who are perfectly happy to live together in peace and not engage each other on theological matters.
Sam Harris is a liberal atheist scientist who, unlike many others in his circles, understands the threat of militant Islam. Another such individual is theoretical physicist David Deutsch.
ReplyDeleteEdge: "What Now?" 10/25/01
David Deutsch's blog Setting the World to Rights
As you probably know, Deutsch and Dawkins have mutually influenced each other's thought. Dawkins' work is one of the foundations of Deutsch's book 'The Fabric of Reality', and Dawkins cites Deutsch's multiverse theory in 'The God Delusion.'
Both Harris and Deutsch understand that corporate imperialism is not the cause of blacks being mass murdered in Sudan and Buddhists being beheaded in Thailand. Rather, such atrocities are the consequence of an apocalyptic, Utopian, and totalitarian ideology.
archie t,
ReplyDeleteI'm not quite seeing the parity between the claims made on that StWtR blog and his "What Now?" piece after 9/11. In the latter he actually repudiates Dawkins' accusation of blame toward religion, and his blog doesn't seem to be much more than knee-jerk apologetics for Israel, with a hint of global warming denialism here and there.
Tyler DiPietro (nice blog, by the way),
ReplyDeleteI don't share your perception that Deutsch's Edge piece and his blog are incongruent. In any case, the threat is not religion in general nor all of Islam, but a religio-political ideology variously called Islamism, militant Islam, and radical Islam. Of course, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, David Deutsch, and other culturally liberal atheist scientists who have written about the issue, including Steven Weinberg and computer scientist Mark Humphrys, will have differences in their characterizations of that threat.
I should have mentioned this about 'Setting The World To Rights':
ReplyDelete"About Us" page:
"those responsible for this web site include David Deutsch and Alan Forrester of Elegance Against Ignorance, with software support by Kevin Schoedel."
archie t,
ReplyDeleteI think the threat can be generalized as a series of reactionary religious movements, the foremost being American Christian fundamentalism and radical Islam. I think there is a point at which you can reasonably say that the threat is religion, and I share the annoyance with Sam Harris that moderates systematically deny this.
Deutsch is one of my scientific heroes by the way. His "The Fabric of Reality" along with Hofstadter's "Goedel, Escher and Bach" were pretty much THE books that got me into computer science.
The above comment is mine. Apparently blogger gave me an identity by default.
ReplyDeleteTyler,
ReplyDeleteI would characterize the issue this way: a Venn diagram of two overlapping circles, one labeled "Religion" and the other labeled "Totalitarianism." The intersection is "Religious Totalitarianism," which includes militant Islam (Khomeinism, Wahhabism, Qaddafi's Islamic Socialism), Christian-affiliated fascism (Iron Guard, Ustasha, Christian Identity), and others (e.g. Aum Shinrikyo).
A number of nation-states are either controlled by Islamic militants or are sponsors of them, producing terrorism, genocides (Sudan), and insurrections (Thailand, Philippines, Waziristan). In contrast, Christian Reconstructionism is marginal even within the American Christian right and Israel banned the Kach party.
While I believe that we atheists should pay heed to people like Deutsch, Harris, Weinberg, and Humphrys, reformist Muslims such as Irshad Manji, Salim Mansur, and Free Muslims Coalition are also important voices in the current struggle.