David Van Biema, the TIME interviewer (who deserves a pat for good questions), asks both men to comment on the observation that “if the universal constants, the six or more characteristics of our universe, had varied at all, it would have made life impossible.”In the actual TIME article Collins replies first to the question. He says,
Dawkins responds that “maybe the universe we are in is one of a very large number of universes. The vast majority will not contain life because they have the wrong gravitational constant or the wrong this constant or that constant. But as the number of universes climbs, the odds mount that a tiny minority of universes will have the right fine-tuning.”
Collins, no fool, pounces: “This is an interesting choice. Barring a theoretical resolution, which I think is unlikely, you either have to say there are zillions of parallel universes out there that we can't observe at present or you have to say there was a plan. I actually find the argument of the existence of a God who did the planning more compelling than the bubbling of all these multiverses. So Occam's razor--Occam says you should choose the explanation that is most simple and straightforward--leads me more to believe in God than in the multiverse, which seems quite a stretch of the imagination.”
I hate to say this, but Collins is right. The multiverse theory is just as preposterous and lacking in evidence as divine creation. Dawkins is often denounced for his arrogance, bluntness, rudeness--in short, his style. When it comes to multiverses, substance, not style, is Dawkins’s problem. Incredibly, Dawkins’s defense of multiverses has allowed Collins--a Christian who believes in miracles, fer crissake--to score a rhetorical victory in a national forum.
When you look at that evidence, it is very difficult to adopt the view that this was just chance. But if you are willing to consider the possibility of a designer, this becomes a rather plausible explanation for what is otherwise an exceedingly improbable event—namely our existence.Dawkins replies to this by pointing out that there are two other possible explanations that don't require us to create a cop-out God. Dawkins says ...
People who believe in God conclude there must have been a devine knob twiddler who twiddled the knobs of these half-dozen constants the get them exactly right. The problem is that this says, because something is vastly improbable, we need a God to explain it. But that God himself would be even more improbable. Physicists have come up with other explanations. One is to say that these six constants are not free to vary. Some unified theory will eventually show that they are as locked in as the circumference and the diameter of a circle. That reduces the odds of them all independently just happening to fit the bill. The other way is the multiverse way. ...I think Dawkins has given a perfectly adequate response to the question. What it boils down to is we don't know why the universe is constructed as it is but there are some reasonable ideas that make the fine-tuning argument superfluous.
The fact that Collins thinks a God who built the universe is more probable than a multiverse is nonsense. The fact that Horgan thinks it's a valid response only proves that if you repeat an ancient superstition enough times it begins to sound reasonable, even to someone who should know better.
Well there isn't any data that would demonstrate our existence is due to sheer-dumb-luck, and since ID and Creation have been ruled out a priori, I guess we just don't exist.
ReplyDeleteScientists like Sir Isaac Newton, Louis Pasteur and Gregor Mendel (father of genetics) were Creationists (evolution being first put forth by the ancient Greeks). Of Newton, Kepler, & Galileo in the book Mathematics: The Loss of Certainty by Morris Kline, Kline states that these scientist-mathematicians believed that "God had designed the universe, and it was to be expected that all phenomena of nature would follow one master plan. One mind designing a universe would almost surely have employed one set of basic principles to govern all related phenomenon."
And what about Max Planck? During his Nobel acceptance speech he said:
"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this minute solar system of the atom together . . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind."
The best way to refute ID and Creation is to substantiate your own claims. However I understand that since you cannot nonsense and misrepresentations are the next best thing.
The best way to refute ID and Creation is to substantiate your own claims.
ReplyDeleteAnd the best way to prove them is quote-mining?
Science is not about proving anything Matthew. Had you known anything about science you would have known that.
ReplyDeleteAlso you do realize that Planck came to that conclusion after a lifetime of scientific research...
I wonder if Dawkins understands that even the multiverse scenario doesn't exclude a designer. In reality it just multiplies the problems faced with a universe.
ReplyDeleteJoe, anyone but a halfwit would have seen that my point was you demand a much higher standard of proof for others' claims than you require of your own.
ReplyDeleteI think it is dangerous for you to assess others' knowledge of science, since you've been all to generous with the evidence that you have little knowledge yourself.
And talking about how many pre-Darwin scientists were creationists is a little silly, isn't it? I mean, they didn't know much about the structure of the atom or quantum mechanics, so why would we expect them to understand evolution? Or is this just a red herring you're used to throwing out and not being called on?