tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post8105362455139484350..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Paradigm shiftingLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-80181186184582762112016-03-19T14:36:42.349-04:002016-03-19T14:36:42.349-04:00"evidence to support your claim that a consci..."evidence to support your claim that a conscious intelligence is required for biochemical reactions to proceed"<br /><br />The evidence is that they don't just proceed. They start and stop on cue. txpiperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03645156881353741058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-17384479504377680172016-03-18T22:11:16.926-04:002016-03-18T22:11:16.926-04:00Steve, I'm with Brian... any ideas regarding t...Steve, I'm with Brian... any ideas regarding the nature and mechanism of this intelligence you speak of?SRMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299706694667706149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-66540787424208000992016-03-17T19:58:05.457-04:002016-03-17T19:58:05.457-04:00Steve,
"Next time someone asks you how the F...Steve,<br /><br />"Next time someone asks you how the F-35 raptor was made, don't tell them a team of thousands of engineers did the work."<br /><br />Straw man argument. I said nothing of the sort.<br /><br />You have yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support your claim that a conscious intelligence is required for biochemical reactions to proceed.<br /><br />What evidence do you have that natural chemical reactions are integrated, coordinated and controlled with intelligence?Chris Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04778164246719803780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-23851119216271728152016-03-17T19:54:05.443-04:002016-03-17T19:54:05.443-04:00Jonathan: Since statistical phylogenetics is a col...Jonathan: Since statistical phylogenetics is a collection of methods for inferring genealogical relationships in evolution, I don't count it as a new paradigm for what happens. Like a new Modern Synthesis, for example.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-43767226262039174022016-03-17T14:05:09.707-04:002016-03-17T14:05:09.707-04:00If you do you're incredibly stupid.
I have a ...<i>If you do you're incredibly stupid.</i><br /><br />I have a feeling confirmation would not involve a paradigm shift.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-5387687392097216582016-03-17T11:25:28.465-04:002016-03-17T11:25:28.465-04:00Steve,
"The truth is thousands upon thousand...Steve,<br /><br /><i>"The truth is thousands upon thousands of of individual, complex, unrelated chemical reactions did all the work."</i><br /><br />Is that really the way you think of evolutionary processes Steve? Individual, complex, unrelated chemical reactions? Do you really think that we think of evolution, life itself, and natural phenomena that way?<br /><br />If you do you're incredibly stupid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-56297517076675183412016-03-17T09:48:06.238-04:002016-03-17T09:48:06.238-04:00Actually, Einstein wrote 2 papers on Special Relat...Actually, Einstein wrote 2 papers on Special Relativity in 1905. At least, one could argue that a paradigm shift began in 1905, even if it took some time to be accepted.<br /><br />Another example was yet another paper by Einstein on the photoelectric effect (for which he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics) which introduced the concept that light was both a wave and a particle. The notion that light consisted of particles had been proposed by Isaac Newton back in the 17th Century but had been all but abandoned due to the success of Huygens' principle in explaining diffraction (although this is not generally known, Newton actually considered the notion after receiving a copy of Huygens paper on the subject. He soon discarded it as the mathematics that would lay a foundation for the theory of quantum mechanics (Hilbert spaces) did not exist at the time.)colnago80https://www.blogger.com/profile/02640567775340860582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-16265972292221912512016-03-17T09:04:27.998-04:002016-03-17T09:04:27.998-04:00Steve, please answer my previous question regardin...Steve, please answer my previous question regarding what it is you think "intelligence" is made of.<br />Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530564543928677353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-23991389675986852502016-03-17T06:47:26.412-04:002016-03-17T06:47:26.412-04:00Next time someone asks you how the F-35 raptor was...<i>Next time someone asks you how the F-35 raptor was made, don't tell them a team of thousands of engineers did the work.</i><br /><br />We can recognize the difference between a team of thousands of engineers being able to design an airplane, and the bacteria in their guts being able to do more advanced genetic engineering than any human.<br /><br />So who was smarter, Steve, Jesus or his intestinal bacteria?judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-36215819296652007222016-03-17T06:37:34.996-04:002016-03-17T06:37:34.996-04:00irrational position
...says the person whose argu...<i>irrational position</i><br /><br />...says the person whose argument requires bacteria to have opinions and do advanced genetic engineering while procreating (which involves splitting in half - Steve, what sort of advanced engineering would you be doing while procreating and splitting in half at the same time?), and thinks God is required to instruct electrons on how to form chemical bonds.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-43855767227601144882016-03-17T04:56:03.362-04:002016-03-17T04:56:03.362-04:00Ah yes, the F35, the pinnacle of human engineering...Ah yes, the F35, the pinnacle of human engineering. With major design flaws, huge software issues and massive cost overruns. Yeah, clearly superior intellect is at work on the F35.<br /><br /><br />Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924368353226400878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-40830656269877437732016-03-16T22:45:08.075-04:002016-03-16T22:45:08.075-04:00So Brian, because you can't wrap your brain ar...So Brian, because you can't wrap your brain around a vexing problem, you just declare it doesn't exist and walk away?<br /><br />Brilliant solution!<br /><br />A TEDX recruiter is knocking on your door as we speak.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71885406047425515892016-03-16T22:39:11.353-04:002016-03-16T22:39:11.353-04:00ChrisB,
Next time someone asks you how the F-35 r...ChrisB,<br /><br />Next time someone asks you how the F-35 raptor was made, don't tell them a team of thousands of engineers did the work.<br /><br />That would be a lie. <br /><br />The truth is thousands upon thousands of of individual, complex, unrelated chemical reactions did all the work. <br /><br />Absolutely no intelligence was involved. None whatsoever.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-21489692490656577522016-03-16T21:56:49.417-04:002016-03-16T21:56:49.417-04:00judmarc,
The incoherence is in you et all denying...judmarc,<br /><br />The incoherence is in you et all denying intelligence. <br /><br />It is a self-defeating, irrational position to take.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-89047524385185647542016-03-16T21:49:38.909-04:002016-03-16T21:49:38.909-04:00So Brian, Chris B, judmarc, SRM are not intelligen...So Brian, Chris B, judmarc, SRM are not intelligent entities. They don't control what they do.<br /><br />Chemistry makes them do whatever they do. Oh, and they don't drive cars. See the gas being exploded in the piston chamber is responsible for driving the car. So dont blame them if their car stall, crashes, run over an old lady<br /><br />Chemistry is responsible for all of it.<br /><br />"nuff said.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-56721480426178499042016-03-15T22:44:46.159-04:002016-03-15T22:44:46.159-04:00Susan Mazur is wrong to define a paradigm shift as...Susan Mazur is wrong to define a paradigm shift as occurring/occurred.<br />YET she is sharp because she rightly sees it coming. <br />Time will prove if she was ahead of the curve.<br />The recent dissent against evolution by the third way folks is disaster for evolutionary biology.<br />No other 'science idea" ever has this or could and still expect to survive.<br />YEC/ID/THIRD WAY /independent thinkers aplenty all point to a curve on the graph that evo bio is unlikely to survive.<br />Its critics are defining it today and not its defenders.<br />Evo bio NEVER had bio evidence behind it and thats why so much error got under the radar. It was based on a desire/need for explanation for important ideas on bio origins. Then unrelated subjects were used to back it up. YET NOT BIO EVIDENCE.<br />This has been smoked out , even by Mazur journalists, and so new explanations are needed to replace the old one.<br />Mazur is not YEC or even ID. Just on the trail of a paradigm shift.<br />Just premature in the catch .<br /><br /><br />Robert Byershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05631863870635096770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-26079059708782313092016-03-15T15:07:35.794-04:002016-03-15T15:07:35.794-04:00I spotted Susan Mazur long ago as a dyed in the wo...I spotted Susan Mazur long ago as a dyed in the wool opportunist, someone with no interest in facts, just finding something she might turn into profit.<br /><br />Rolf Aalberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12878337054438652463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-54484979197949659942016-03-15T15:04:54.284-04:002016-03-15T15:04:54.284-04:00Steve,
What evidence do you have that natural che...Steve,<br /><br />What evidence do you have that natural chemical reactions are integrated, coordinated and controlled with intelligence?Chris Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04778164246719803780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-50217647275331000212016-03-15T14:34:53.167-04:002016-03-15T14:34:53.167-04:00Single papers do not shift paradigms. From 1905 to...Single papers do not shift paradigms. From 1905 to 1915, the physics community gradually adopted the new perspective as it became clear that Einstein was right. When the paper first came out I imagine that most scientists were skeptical, as they should be. Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-1620614607802236092016-03-15T12:43:02.191-04:002016-03-15T12:43:02.191-04:00Steve: "See, to SRM el all organisms are just...Steve: "See, to SRM el all organisms are just a bunch of chemical reactions that just happen but f#$k if he knows how they are able to be integrated, corrdinated, controlled without intelligence."<br /><br />Still question begging, Steve? Why is coordination and control of biochemical systems beyond that capabilities of chemistry? (Pro tip: much of these 'coordination and control systems' as you like to call them are pretty well characterized, and they are based on - you guessed it - chemistry) Does "intelligence" not rely on the same chemistry? If not, what is the stuff of "intelligence"?Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530564543928677353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-70790431403831056062016-03-15T11:46:50.582-04:002016-03-15T11:46:50.582-04:00There's really no effective response to that!There's really no effective response to that! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-66205125903924087362016-03-15T11:07:58.320-04:002016-03-15T11:07:58.320-04:00I think that there was one scientific paper publis...I think that there was one scientific paper published in the 20th century that was unequivocally a paradigm shift, namely Einstein's 1905 papers on the special theory of relativity. The notion that that the speed of light was independent of the velocity of the observer and that it was the upper limit of velocity that could be achieved were both paradigm shifts of major proportions.colnago80https://www.blogger.com/profile/02640567775340860582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-57051934185830623182016-03-15T09:44:34.461-04:002016-03-15T09:44:34.461-04:00So you don't count statistical phylogenetics a...So you don't count statistical phylogenetics as creating a new paradigm? Wouldn't doing "normal science" be just sticking to pop-gen like you learned in grad school?<br /><br />It reminds a bit of Hull -- he made the interesting observation that claiming a new paradigm or claiming that one is simply adding a brick or two to the edifice of science is a conscious choice that works both ways: not only do some people hype up pedestrian results as revolutionary, others hide revolutionary results as pedestrian in order to sneak them into the mainstream.Jonathan Badgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04921990886076027719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-77571017627367905352016-03-15T08:33:29.645-04:002016-03-15T08:33:29.645-04:00I doubt that you understand what evolution is.
I doubt that you understand what evolution is.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-76272049386945055742016-03-15T08:25:16.314-04:002016-03-15T08:25:16.314-04:00@judmarc - silly analogy! Without guiding intellig...@judmarc - silly analogy! Without guiding intelligence a 2 might accidently hook up with a 3. What then would become of its quest to be a 4?SRMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299706694667706149noreply@blogger.com