tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post5521344223018802240..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Let's analyze the Newsweek lab leak conspiracy theory article Larry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-59839339926883538452021-06-14T09:44:28.446-04:002021-06-14T09:44:28.446-04:00Well, that was a bit of drama! Well, that was a bit of drama! Mark Sturtevanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05846892642161763103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-56653654649777151882021-06-12T08:37:46.290-04:002021-06-12T08:37:46.290-04:00He deleted them.He deleted them.Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-9691208160835730072021-06-12T08:07:46.303-04:002021-06-12T08:07:46.303-04:00Skeletor's comments have all disappeared. Did...Skeletor's comments have all disappeared. Did he delete them? Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-64721275596613773242021-06-12T08:01:16.615-04:002021-06-12T08:01:16.615-04:00Hmm all of Skeletor's posts now just say "...Hmm all of Skeletor's posts now just say "This comment has been removed by the author." <br /><br />Did he have a change of heart and remove his posts or what?Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07670550711237457368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71296866818218462692021-06-11T11:35:13.778-04:002021-06-11T11:35:13.778-04:00The author of the thesis thought a viral infection...The author of the thesis thought a viral infection was most likely, but did not provide any conclusive evidence for this. This was early in the investigation of the case cluster. The final conclusion was that a viral cause of death could not be demonstrated.<br /><br />Larry has already explained this in the main article, so I don't know why have I have to repeat this.<br /><br />Once more I ask: What evidence is there that SARS-CoV-2 was ever stored at WIV? Even if they were wrong about the cause of death of those miners in 2012, what does that have to do with this question? Can you at least try to present a coherent scenario, as opposed to a litany of unrelated and false accusations?Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-82854123446207896792021-06-11T11:13:57.381-04:002021-06-11T11:13:57.381-04:00You continue to make false accusations, and incohe...You continue to make false accusations, and incoherent attempts at argument.<br /><br />They did not lie about deleting the database.<br /><br />If you are not claiming that they knew SARS-CoV-2 was in the database, then exactly what do you find "suspicious" about its deletion, 3 months before the first cases of COVID-19 were identified? Please spell out your case to me as if I was a rather stupid young child, because I honestly cannot see any logical sequence of events in your scenario.<br /><br />And your claim that there has been a "multitude of lies, coverups, and non-cooperation" is simply false. No one who has investigated WIV has reported anything other than full cooperation and openness. That will never satisfy people who are hell bent on proving their pet conspiracy theory, however, will it? Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-5122964566566476752021-06-11T10:36:43.828-04:002021-06-11T10:36:43.828-04:00I do not deny your good faith. But you have not p...I do not deny your good faith. But you have not provided meaningful answers to many of my questions.<br /><br />What evidence is there that SARS-CoV-2 was ever stored at WIV? Your best "evidence" seems to be that WIV was investigating an outbreak of respiratory illnesses of possible viral origin back in 2012, and concluded they could not demonstrate it was viral. For no apparent reason you think they are lying about this and, for reasons that are also not apparent, you think this somehow means they had samples of SARS-CoV-2 that they hid.<br /><br />Your argument is bereft of logic and evidence.Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-70681250627484483292021-06-11T10:10:47.968-04:002021-06-11T10:10:47.968-04:00I agree with dean. It looks like Skeletor just hat...I agree with dean. It looks like Skeletor just hates China and that’s why he wants to pin the pandemic on China. Note that his comments concentrate on showing that the Chinese Communist Part (CCP) can’t be trusted and therefore the scientists at WIV must be lying. Facts don’t seem to matter to him because every inconvenient “fact” is just more proof of lying and coverup. It’s classic conspiracy theory thinking.Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-47894447935933347412021-06-11T09:46:19.987-04:002021-06-11T09:46:19.987-04:00I don't think that's his intent. It's...I don't think that's his intent. It's just that this sort of sloppy thinking is sadly common. Just find a bunch of stuff that seems suspicious on a superficial reading, and then just assume it all points to something more nefarious lying deeper down. But if you ask such people to such people to actually arrange the pieces of "evidence" into a coherent whole, they can't do it.Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-15842611486917838502021-06-11T08:41:44.280-04:002021-06-11T08:41:44.280-04:00Reading through this is seems that skeletor's ...Reading through this is seems that skeletor's intent is not to determine facts here, but merely to smear the reputation of scientists from WHO and China. No real facts from the poster, lots of unsubstantiated assertions. deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08279929296814513986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-50366544841061753422021-06-11T07:36:20.596-04:002021-06-11T07:36:20.596-04:00RATG-13 is NOT closely related, however. It's...RATG-13 is NOT closely related, however. It's most recent common ancestor with SARS-CoV-2 most likely existed 50 years ago, and at least 20 years ago. So it is irrelevant.<br />Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-3972232691954684372021-06-11T07:34:02.427-04:002021-06-11T07:34:02.427-04:00OK, my mistake. However, I do not see how one can...OK, my mistake. However, I do not see how one can access a translation of the PhD thesis, unless I am missing something. I also do not understand the significance of 4 of the the 6 patients developing antibodies. What of the other two? Were they not tested? Or did they test negative? If the latter, then that throws serious doubt on a "SARS virus" being the cause of death.<br /><br />In any event, I still am not seeing how any of this relates to COVID-19. This seems to be what you are claiming:<br /><br />In 2012, there was an outbreak of serious respiratory illness resembling SARS among a group of miners, half of whom died.<br /><br />These miners had been working in a cave and had been exposed to bat feces. WIV was investigating the origins of SARS and suspected it might have originated in bats, therefore they were very interested in investigating this outbreak for obvious reasons.<br /><br />Then, according to your story, they did in fact identify a new coronavirus that was responsible for the deaths, exactly the sort of thing their research has been trying to uncover.<br /><br />So what do they do next? Well, the obvious thing would be to publish their findings and announce to the world a potential new viral pathogen that presents a risk to the human population.<br /><br />But, according to your version of the story what the actually do is KEEP THIS FINDING SECRET AND NEVER TELL ANYONE, NOT TO THIS DAY, AND DESTROY ALL THE EVIDENCE FOR A DISCOVERY OF THE SORT THAT RESEARCHERS IN THEIR FIELD DREAM OF MAKING !!<br /><br />Why would anyone do this?<br /><br />And, the big question, what does any of this have to do with the outbreak of a completely different virus 9 years later that causes a global pandemic?<br /><br />Your story, even if it was true (and there remains no good evidence that it is) does not make any sense on the face of it. Sorry. Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-25998927724890082572021-06-10T22:24:19.049-04:002021-06-10T22:24:19.049-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/04231121534500170940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71133762045367015442021-06-10T22:08:36.100-04:002021-06-10T22:08:36.100-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/04231121534500170940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-44190978521365965422021-06-10T21:51:34.878-04:002021-06-10T21:51:34.878-04:00I also think you are wrong in saying a "SARS ...I also think you are wrong in saying a "SARS virus" is by definition closely related to the SARS-CoV-2 just by virtue of having "SARS" in its name. So perhaps you could verify your assumption is true? Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-72521536476083696222021-06-10T21:46:37.520-04:002021-06-10T21:46:37.520-04:00I guess you didn't actually read the study you...I guess you didn't actually read the study you cited. Here is what the authors say themselves:<br /><br /><i>The thesis was found on the cnki.net website which is the official website for Master's and Ph.D. thesis in China and therefore considered to be a valid source. The original thesis is in Chinese (7) and we translated it using google translation.</i><br /><br />I was unable to find the passage describing the "SARS antibodies" result in what is supposed to be the professional translation. Can you show us where it is?<br /><br />https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6981198-Analysis-of-Six-Patients-With-Unknown-Viruses.html<br />Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-72277016505395060642021-06-10T21:01:47.744-04:002021-06-10T21:01:47.744-04:00Dr. Moran, Thank you for this analysis of the News...Dr. Moran, Thank you for this analysis of the Newsweek article! I appreciate your laying out this information clearly.Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484430852843017156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-15178804064878436582021-06-10T18:18:40.625-04:002021-06-10T18:18:40.625-04:00@Skeletor
"Considering that they lied about t...@Skeletor<br /><em>"Considering that they lied about the deaths being caused by a virus"</em><br /><br />This phrasing suggests we now know what caused the deaths. We'd have to know that, and know that they knew, to be able to claim that they lied. So, <em>were</em> the deaths caused by a virus and how do we know this?<br /><br /><em>"The issue is that they lied about the deaths being attributed to a SARS-like virus and they stated that the serum tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 without disclosing that it tested positive for other SARS antibodies."</em><br /><br />I think you're playing a little fast and loose with the terms here. Were the deaths actually <em>attributed</em> to a virus, or were they merely initially suspected of being caused by a virus? Big difference. <br />Also, what's a "SARS-like" virus? SARS is a sort of symptom.<br /><br />You say the serum tested negative for SARS-Cov2, which is an actual virus, so I assume this is a PCR test that is negative(as in, someone was looking for virus DNA/RNA). <br /><br />Then you state they tested positive for <em>"<strong>other</strong> SARS antibodies"</em> - but an antibody test is not a PCR test, so what is meant by "other" SARS antibodies? <br /><br />This is why I asked for clarification earlier. What actual tests were done? <br />What were the deaths actually attributed to? Is there some report that states "most likely cause of death" or something to that effect? Were viruses merely suspected initially?Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07670550711237457368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-57575279300065045482021-06-10T18:08:07.412-04:002021-06-10T18:08:07.412-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/04231121534500170940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-54787945477082797022021-06-10T17:54:52.805-04:002021-06-10T17:54:52.805-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/04231121534500170940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-42416194533270743312021-06-10T17:44:01.039-04:002021-06-10T17:44:01.039-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/04231121534500170940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-5575492815496044702021-06-10T17:33:52.532-04:002021-06-10T17:33:52.532-04:00Please present your evidence that WIV workers knew...Please present your evidence that WIV workers knew in September 2019 that there was a new virus circulating that had potential to cause a global pandemic, and that this virus was included in their database.<br /><br />If all you have is that they deleted the database, you surely must admit this does not come even close to justifying your claims.<br /><br />And perhaps you could also justify your accusation that Peter Daszak is lying.Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-4582462387766907082021-06-10T17:22:24.635-04:002021-06-10T17:22:24.635-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/04231121534500170940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-39366566667582291262021-06-10T15:13:15.269-04:002021-06-10T15:13:15.269-04:00If I understand correctly, this claim about "...If I understand correctly, this claim about "SARS antibodies" is based on some English speaking "internet sleuth" using Google Translate to read a thesis written in a Chinese language. Someone can correct me if I am wrong about that.Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-9285537799693089572021-06-10T14:45:25.931-04:002021-06-10T14:45:25.931-04:00I'm not arguing that SARS-CoV-2 is derived fro...<i>I'm not arguing that SARS-CoV-2 is derived from any of the viruses from the mine. However, Ratg13 is the closest virus to SARS-COV-2, which is very important.</i><br /><br />If you are not arguing that SARS-CoV-2 was derived from any of the viruses in that mine, then I fail to see why you think the closeness of RATG-13 is "very important." Could you clarify?Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.com