tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post4757209103938190073..comments2024-03-18T09:58:09.828-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Creationists questioning pseudogenes: the beta-globin pseudogeneLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-70381664634685398222017-10-28T22:47:50.385-04:002017-10-28T22:47:50.385-04:00Jass said:
"just like quantum computers' ...Jass said:<br />"just like quantum computers' efficiency is superior to the conventional ones."<br /><br />I work in Quantum computers and this isn't true either.BCWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06905387799270933298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-81337285918226975452017-10-28T17:36:09.349-04:002017-10-28T17:36:09.349-04:00I tumbled onto this thread as a consequence of Chr...I tumbled onto this thread as a consequence of Christine Janis calling my attention to Jonathan's mentioning my "Evolution Slam Dunk" in his Panda's Piece. Since Tomkins is at top of YEC fact claimant food chain on genetic matters, this posting or Larry's will be added to my #TIP dataset www.tortucan.wordpress.com along with the various back and forths.<br /><br />My general #TIP point is that it's always good to engage antievolutionists at the source documentation level, first because it allows the best of targeted criticism to be made, and second because in the process you end up clarifying and strengthening one's own understanding of the issues. Win/win.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10542541738235804932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-15888686915929420542017-10-27T23:01:35.909-04:002017-10-27T23:01:35.909-04:00@Gabriel Moreno-Hagelsieb,
I should not be feedin...@Gabriel Moreno-Hagelsieb,<br /><br /><i>I should not be feeding your trolling...</i><br /><br />Now you know how I feel...Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-62479604615287195342017-10-27T08:33:59.346-04:002017-10-27T08:33:59.346-04:00Jass,
I should not be feeding your trolling, but ...Jass,<br /><br />I should not be feeding your trolling, but seems like you're a bit confused.<br /><br />"You're angry? I'd thought you would be happy that quantum mechanics is leading to another layer of sophistication in lifesystems clearly pointing toward God..."<br /><br />Quantum mechanics is a model for physical phenomena as observed at very small levels. It applies to all physical phenomena, only, being about the extremely small, putting those tiny details together to try and explain things at a higher level requires lots of computation. If you want to call that "sophisticated," that's all right. The point is: it's a model for all physics. Physics, I hope you know, is natural.<br /><br />So, I really don't understand how would anybody jump from: scientists are trying to explain some biological phenomena using quantum mechanics, therefore gods.<br /><br />It's like being surprised that, after suggestion of the composition of matter out of atoms, you were surprised that life is also composed of atoms. Therefore gods.<br /><br />The difficulty in the computation is a human problem, by the way. Nature keeps going regardless of our mathematical models being "sophisticated" or simple. It's still nature.<br /><br />Hopefully now you can stop the useless and nonsensical bullshitting. Given your many posts above, I doubt that you're able to grasp the message, but there you go. This is it from me. I'd rather not continue. After all, this is off-topic.Gabohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17552375541700079254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-47577647650581446822017-10-27T05:45:04.004-04:002017-10-27T05:45:04.004-04:00@Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussen,
My goodness can't...@Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussen,<br /><br /><i>My goodness can't you just shut up for a moment with all your quantum-woo bullshit?</i><br /><br />You're angry? I'd thought you would be happy that quantum mechanics is leading to another layer of sophistication in lifesystems clearly pointing toward God...<br /><br />Wait until you see proof what QM does in DNA, non-random mutations, "pseudogenes", overlapping sequences for protein coding, transcription factor binding, dual coding genes, and much, much more...<br /><br />Isn't this exciting? Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-6854569036039077032017-10-26T17:42:04.086-04:002017-10-26T17:42:04.086-04:00off topic, but oh wow
https://www.nature.com/arti...off topic, but oh wow<br /><br />https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13924.pdf<br /><br />any chance a thread can be made of this?Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-27861374896293224972017-10-26T09:36:32.949-04:002017-10-26T09:36:32.949-04:00Apologies for my role in pointing out the idiocy a...Apologies for my role in pointing out the idiocy and thus fostering more of it, though thanks to Larry for the reference to interesting scientific work on the topic.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-18648548014816094542017-10-26T04:18:16.357-04:002017-10-26T04:18:16.357-04:00My goodness can't you just shut up for a momen...My goodness can't you just shut up for a moment with all your quantum-woo bullshit?Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07670550711237457368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-91789688540069593102017-10-25T21:47:59.983-04:002017-10-25T21:47:59.983-04:00judmarc,
They are building quantum solar panels ...judmarc, <br /><br />They are building quantum solar panels imitating the quantum coherence process of photosynthesis because it is 100% efficient. You are stuck in 17 century Newtonian physics... It's better for me because I'm thinking about investing... ;-) You do your own thing! <br /><br />"Unlocking nature's quantum engineering for efficient solar energy<br /><br /><br /> Unlocking nature’s quantum engineering for efficient solar energy<br />(Phys.org)—Quantum scale photosynthesis in biological systems which inhabit extreme environments could hold key to new designs for solar energy and nanoscale devices. Certain biological systems living in low light environments have unique protein structures for photosynthesis that use quantum dynamics to convert 100% of absorbed light into electrical charge, displaying astonishing efficiency that could lead to new understanding of renewable solar energy, suggests research published today in the journal Nature Physics.<br /><br />Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2013-01-nature-quantum-efficient-solar-energy.html#jCpJasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-20427243275501858442017-10-25T21:42:17.976-04:002017-10-25T21:42:17.976-04:00Quantum Biometrics Exploits the Human Eye’s Abilit...Quantum Biometrics Exploits the Human Eye’s Ability to Detect Single Photons<br /><br />Identifying individuals by the way their eyes detect photons could be a hugely accurate form of biometrics, guaranteed by the laws of quantum mechanics.<br /><br />https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604266/quantum-biometrics-exploits-the-human-eyes-ability-to-detect-single-photons/<br /><br />This quantum feature of human eye must have evolved mainly by non-random mutations and random natural selection... which some of which are also directed by quantum mechanics... That's something evolution would predict...I think...Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-60333657636961065452017-10-25T21:39:54.556-04:002017-10-25T21:39:54.556-04:00So I looked at the bird article. The scientists t...So I looked at the bird article. The scientists there feel they've built a more realistic model. They are quite a long way from proving anything, but perhaps they'll be able to accumulate actual evidence in support of their model in the coming years. It will be interesting to see if they can.<br /><br />But why it should be any surprise to you that all of chemistry, including biochemistry, works in accordance with the laws of quantum physics, I really don't know. Since the universe works in accordance with these laws, what else would you expect?judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-2598418341655181112017-10-25T21:30:31.118-04:002017-10-25T21:30:31.118-04:00So neither any of my questions nor my objection ha...So neither any of my questions nor my objection have been answered. Not that anything else was expected.<br /><br />You know, when someone asks you a question like what classes of mathematical problems have mathematical proofs showing them to be capable of quantum speedup, rather than quoting generic pablum it's OK to say you don't know the specifics.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-12578122195855649632017-10-25T21:27:11.014-04:002017-10-25T21:27:11.014-04:00One more on quantum coherence in photosynthesis fr...One more on quantum coherence in photosynthesis from Larry's neck of the woods U of T...<br /><br />Coherently wired light-harvesting in photosynthetic marine algae at ambient temperature<br /><br />Elisabetta Collini1,3,4, Cathy Y. Wong1,3, Krystyna E. Wilk2, Paul M. G. Curmi2, Paul Brumer1 & Gregory D. Scholes1<br /><br />Department of Chemistry, Institute for Optical Sciences and Centre for Quantum Information and Quantum Control, University of Toronto, 80 St George Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5S 3H6 Canada<br />School of Physics and Centre for Applied Medical Research, St Vincent’s Hospital, The University of New South Wales, Sydney, New South Wales 2052, Australia<br />These authors contributed equally to this work.<br />Present address: Dipartimento di Scienze Chimiche, Università di Padova, via Marzolo 1, 35100, Padova, Italy.<br />Correspondence to: Gregory D. Scholes1 Correspondence and requests for materials should be addressed to G.D.S. (Email: gscholes@chem.utoronto.ca).<br /><br /><br />Photosynthesis makes use of sunlight to convert carbon dioxide into useful biomass and is vital for life on Earth. Crucial components for the photosynthetic process are antenna proteins, which absorb light and transmit the resultant excitation energy between molecules to a reaction centre. The efficiency of these electronic energy transfers has inspired much work on antenna proteins isolated from photosynthetic organisms to uncover the basic mechanisms at play1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Intriguingly, recent work has documented6, 7, 8 that light-absorbing molecules in some photosynthetic proteins capture and transfer energy according to quantum-mechanical probability laws instead of classical laws9 at temperatures up to 180 K. <b>This contrasts with the long-held view that long-range quantum coherence between molecules cannot be sustained in complex biological systems, even at low temperatures. Here we present two-dimensional photon echo spectroscopy10, 11, 12, 13 measurements on two evolutionarily related light-harvesting proteins isolated from marine cryptophyte algae, which reveal exceptionally long-lasting excitation oscillations with distinct correlations and anti-correlations even at ambient temperature. These observations provide compelling evidence for quantum-coherent sharing of electronic excitation across the 5-nm-wide proteins under biologically relevant conditions, suggesting that distant molecules within the photosynthetic proteins are ‘wired’ together by quantum coherence for more efficient light-harvesting in cryptophyte marine algae.</b>Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-84993089721511150632017-10-25T21:06:12.398-04:002017-10-25T21:06:12.398-04:00Birds measure magnetic fields using long-lived qua...<b>Birds measure magnetic fields using long-lived quantum coherence</b><br /><br />http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/apr/07/birds-measure-magnetic-fields-using-long-lived-quantum-coherence<br /><br />A system like that must have evolved! By what mechanism? It remains to be seen in the quantum realm of subatomic particles... ;-)Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-64184686318230988682017-10-25T20:45:40.545-04:002017-10-25T20:45:40.545-04:00judmarc,
So tell us, Jass, what is God’s frequen...judmarc, <br /><br /><i>So tell us, Jass, what is God’s frequency?</i><br /><br />So tell us, judmarc, what is your dumb luck's source of creative energy that lead from lifeless matter becoming alive and how intelligent people like yourself replicate what dumb luck accomplished? It should be a piece of cake for clever guys like you lol<br /><br />Please feel free to include the frequencies your god dumb luck operated on when it converted lifeless matter into life... Don't overwhelm us with too much evidence! <br />Few experimental evidence will do... ;-)<br /><br />I keep my fingers crossed for one piece of evidence...lolJasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-11702562021409867012017-10-25T20:30:49.680-04:002017-10-25T20:30:49.680-04:00judmarc,
Specifically for what types of problems?...judmarc,<br /><br /><i>Specifically for what types of problems? I.e., for what classes of mathematical problems do there exist mathematical proofs of the superiority of quantum computing? For what classes are there mathematical proofs that there is no "quantum speedup"? And what are some of the classes for which there are as yet no proofs either way? Since you used this as an example, Jass, I'm sure you know about it.</i><br /><br /><b>Quantum vs Classical Computation</b><br /><br />"Quantum Computing is the art of using all the possibilities that the laws of quantum mechanics give us to solve computational problems. Conventional, or "Classical" computers (like the one used to build this page) only use a small subset of these possibilities. In essence, they compute in the same way that people compute by hand. There are many results about the wonderful things we would be able to do if only we had a large enough quantum computer. The most important of these is probably that we would be able to perform simulations of quantum mechanical processes in physics, chemistry and biology, which will never come within the range of classical computers. Let's compare some aspects of classical and quantum computers:<br /><br />http://www.thphys.nuim.ie/staff/joost/TQM/QvC.html<br /><br />Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-52863061010189389722017-10-25T20:26:29.889-04:002017-10-25T20:26:29.889-04:00@judmarcWednesday,
Thanks Larry. Not unusual that...@judmarcWednesday,<br /><br /><i>Thanks Larry. Not unusual that there would be a potentially exciting finding that is later determined not to be the case. Jass will have to find some other machina for his Deus.</i><br /><br />That's why so many experiments need to be repeated especially when study shows conflicting results with so many other experiments...<br /><br /><b>Coherence in Photosynthesis</b><br /><br />"It is unclear how energy absorbed by pigments in antenna proteins is transferred to the central site of chemical catalysis during photosynthesis. Hildner et al. (p. 1448) observed coherence—prolonged persistence of a quantum mechanical phase relationship—at the single-molecule level in light-harvesting complexes from purple bacteria. The results bolster conclusions from past ensemble measurements that coherence plays a pivotal role in photosynthetic energy transfer. Hayes et al. (p. 1431, published online 18 April) examined a series of small molecules comprised of bridged chromophores that also manifest prolonged coherence.<br />Abstract<br />The initial steps of photosynthesis comprise the absorption of sunlight by pigment-protein antenna complexes followed by rapid and <b>highly efficient funneling of excitation energy to a reaction center.</b> In these transport processes, signatures of <b>unexpectedly long-lived coherences have emerged in two-dimensional ensemble spectra of various light-harvesting complexes.</b> Here, we demonstrate ultrafast quantum coherent energy transfer within individual antenna complexes of a purple bacterium under physiological conditions. <b>We find that quantum coherences between electronically coupled energy eigenstates persist at least 400 femtoseconds and that distinct energy-transfer pathways that change with time can be identified in each complex. Our data suggest that long-lived quantum coherence renders energy transfer in photosynthetic systems robust in the presence of disorder, which is a prerequisite for efficient light harvesting.</b><br /><br />There are few more...Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-60454373364653090682017-10-25T13:23:45.094-04:002017-10-25T13:23:45.094-04:00just like quantum computers' efficiency is sup...<i>just like quantum computers' efficiency is superior to the conventional ones.</i><br /><br />Specifically for what types of problems? I.e., for what classes of mathematical problems do there exist mathematical proofs of the superiority of quantum computing? For what classes are there mathematical proofs that there is no "quantum speedup"? And what are some of the classes for which there are as yet no proofs either way? Since you used this as an example, Jass, I'm sure you know about it.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-81808987271544998732017-10-25T12:48:37.997-04:002017-10-25T12:48:37.997-04:00Thanks Larry. Not unusual that there would be a p...Thanks Larry. Not unusual that there would be a potentially exciting finding that is later determined not to be the case. Jass will have to find some other <i>machina</i> for his <i>Deus</i>.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-7577260461778848742017-10-25T08:23:04.039-04:002017-10-25T08:23:04.039-04:00It is the same source of energy that caused the sp...<i>It is the same source of energy that caused the spontaneous generation of life</i><br /><br />This was Jass’s response when asked about the source of energy at particular frequencies (i.e., radiant energy) that would operate for DNA replication as light does in photosynthesis.<br /><br />So tell us, Jass, what is God’s frequency?<br /><br />(You also never gave an answer to my objection that higher energy transfer in DNA synthesis would lead to greater, not lesser, mutagenesis. Why are people advised to wear sunscreen, Jass? Think about it.)judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-66742292735980500442017-10-25T08:15:57.253-04:002017-10-25T08:15:57.253-04:00Jass, I believe I see the problem (beyond your ten...Jass, I believe I see the problem (beyond your tendency to fall in love with science-y sounding words - this month, God apparently works mysteriously via quantum coherence, his wonders to perform): A complete lack of reading comprehension. In your October 23rd comment, you first say I don’t know what I’m talking about, then you entirely agree with me (about the way the recent papers say quantum coherence works in photosynthesis).judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-53629484930783802522017-10-24T20:57:48.227-04:002017-10-24T20:57:48.227-04:00Larry,
The study you refer to used only one mode...Larry, <br /><br />The study you refer to used only one model of experimentation available to see if Quantum Coherence is maintained long enough... <br /><br />There have been many studies preformed before this and after that showed quantum coherence timescales well above 60 fs up 800 fs a and even more...<br /><br />Bird navigation involving quantum coherence long-lived timescales to measure magnetic fields has been long disputed until recently...<br /><br />Our sense of smell via quantum coherence as well as quantum consciousness via entanglement have been disputed for over 20 years until recent experiments have proven vibration in microtubules of neurons. <br /><br />Photosynthesis is too efficient to use any conventional energy transfer system...just as judmarc admitted himself...Energy transfer via quantum coherence is way superior to the conventional one, just like quantum computers' efficiency is superior to the conventional ones...<br />No one can deny these facts... You either use it or lose it ;-) Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-32635385479938217092017-10-24T20:26:51.276-04:002017-10-24T20:26:51.276-04:00judmarc,
Where’s your energy source with characte...judmarc,<br /><br /><i>Where’s your energy source with characteristic frequencies in the DNA example? Then even if you manage to find an energy source, the result of the coherence mechanism is greater energy</i><br /><br />It is the same source of energy that caused the spontaneous generation of life, and now looks like is behind the quantum coherent entanglement controlled mitosis, cell differentiation, non-random mutations and so on...<br /><br />You should not be asking my this questions... You are the one who should know better what energy is behind OOL ;-) Jasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-47580728633309053832017-10-23T23:21:55.447-04:002017-10-23T23:21:55.447-04:00judmarc,
Actually, yep, I do. In photosynthesis ...judmarc, <br /><br /><i>Actually, yep, I do. In photosynthesis in plants, the idea in these latest papers is, as I said, that it accounts for greater than classical efficiency of energy transfer.</i><br /><br />You either don't know what you are talking about or you are contradicting yourself. Let's see which one it is. I suspect both:<br /> <br />The latest papers, that mentioned much greater efficiency of energy transfer in photosynthesis, almost without loss of energy to heat, much better than the classical energy transfer, what is that system of energy transfer called? lolJasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00012083978513644307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-22978224837597882422017-10-23T13:55:56.744-04:002017-10-23T13:55:56.744-04:00Some of you might be interested in this paper, pub...Some of you might be interested in this paper, published just two months ago in PNAS.<br /><br /><b>Duan, H.-G., Prokhorenko, V.I., Cogdell, R.J., Ashraf, K., Stevens, A.L., Thorwart, M., and Miller, R.D. (2017)</b> Nature does not rely on long-lived electronic quantum coherence for photosynthetic energy transfer. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 114:8493-8498. [<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1702261114" rel="nofollow">doi: 10.1073/pnas.1702261114 </a>]<br /><br /><b>Abstract:</b>During the first steps of photosynthesis, the energy of impinging solar photons is transformed into electronic excitation energy of the light-harvesting biomolecular complexes. The subsequent energy transfer to the reaction center is commonly rationalized in terms of excitons moving on a grid of biomolecular chromophores on typical timescales <100 fs. Today’s understanding of the energy transfer includes the fact that the excitons are delocalized over a few neighboring sites, but the role of quantum coherence is considered as irrelevant for the transfer dynamics because it typically decays within a few tens of femtoseconds. This orthodox picture of incoherent energy transfer between clusters of a few pigments sharing delocalized excitons has been challenged by ultrafast optical spectroscopy experiments with the Fenna–Matthews–Olson protein, in which interference oscillatory signals up to 1.5 ps were reported and interpreted as direct evidence of exceptionally long-lived electronic quantum coherence. Here, we show that the optical 2D photon echo spectra of this complex at ambient temperature in aqueous solution do not provide evidence of any long-lived electronic quantum coherence, but confirm the orthodox view of rapidly decaying electronic quantum coherence on a timescale of 60 fs. Our results can be considered as generic and give no hint that electronic quantum coherence plays any biofunctional role in real photoactive biomolecular complexes. Because in this structurally well-defined protein the distances between bacteriochlorophylls are comparable to those of other light-harvesting complexes, we anticipate that this finding is general and directly applies to even larger photoactive biomolecular complexes. Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.com