tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post4523965965801998968..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Why Are IDiots So Nasty?Larry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-51862439211381772122013-09-25T23:53:54.235-04:002013-09-25T23:53:54.235-04:00Diogenes, it does seem like Steve's quote (3) ...Diogenes, it does seem like Steve's quote (3) does actually link my quotes 1 & 2 together at least in the case of Islam.<br />It was never my intention to link them together, and even now with the third quote I think it would be preposterous to accuse Harris of arguing for taking out people based on religious beliefs without actually having read his books.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03503746944125068931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-34586202011050829892013-09-25T23:42:37.854-04:002013-09-25T23:42:37.854-04:00Steve, I mostly do not respond to your comments be...Steve, I mostly do not respond to your comments because they tend to be confusing, now we see why. I assumed your Harris quote was your own opinion, sorry about that.<br /><br />Going back to Diogenes example. Al-Awlaki was not a nice guy and I do not wish to defend him in any way. That said, the problem I see in # 1 is once you lower yourself to the level of the terrorists, what values are you then fighting to uphold? Who decides who is a righteous target and where does this person draw the line? It very dangerous path to go down. In the case of Al-Awlaki I think the decision was taken by the president. Is it really compatible with western democracy (built on Christian values, by the way) to let one man be judge, jury and executioner? I think not.<br />In the case of Al-Awlaki much of the debate in the States seem to have been about him being an American. To me that does not make one bit of difference.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03503746944125068931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-15210051713881355632013-09-25T17:37:49.165-04:002013-09-25T17:37:49.165-04:00Here is Hal Turner, who appeared as a friend of Se...Here is Hal Turner, who appeared as a friend of Sean Hannity on his radio show. He went to prison for threatening three federal judges:<br /><br /><i>"We Christians would do well to adopt the Muslim strategy. When someone sues to remove the Ten Commandments from a public area, attack, beat and maybe even KILL them. When a federal appeals court rules that Christian Nativity Scenes in New York Schools can be banned while Jew Menorrah's [sic] a Muslim Crescents can remain in the same schools, the Judges on that court should be attacked, beaten and if necessary, KILLED. When someone sues to halt Christian public prayers at football games, school events or local town meetings, that person should be attacked, beaten and if need be, KILLED. Violence works. It makes people think twice before doing something to a particular [sic] person or group of people.” </i> [<a href="http://www.adl.org/main_extremism/turner_own_words.htm" rel="nofollow">Sean Hannity's extremist friend Hal Turner, cited by the ADL</a>]<br />Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-85133864146095183072013-09-25T17:34:04.182-04:002013-09-25T17:34:04.182-04:00And here is some nastiness directed at the Proud A...And here is some nastiness directed at the Proud Atheists blog from one Gabriel Tanejo:<br /><br /><i>"Yes, happy first and LAST anniversary.<br /><br />Your sins are too mighty to repent for, our Father will send you all to hell when you die! I will hack into this website and destroy it; and find your personal information too, so I can blow up your house—but your destiny is so fucked up that I don’t know why I would bother! <b>I may, however, hunt down your friends and family and slaughter them—that would cause you great pain, would it not? I have gotten signs from God that approve of doing this to all fucking atheists!</b> Someday you may find a gun at your head, or cyanide in your drink, or a grenade in your home—but I will kill you, make no mistake! The sooner you go to your eternal punishment, the better!"</i><br /><br />[<a href="http://www.atheistnexus.org/profiles/blog/show?id=2182797%3ABlogPost%3A512711&page=1#comment-2182797_Comment_512777" rel="nofollow">Gabriel Tanejo death threats toward atheists, cited here</a>]<br />Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-76149209715983203772013-09-25T16:34:13.817-04:002013-09-25T16:34:13.817-04:00@Diogenes - agreed.
I will note in passing that &...@Diogenes - agreed.<br /><br />I will note in passing that "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason" by Sam Harris was the first explicitly atheist book that I read and it resulted in that aha moment where I realized all those thoughts I had been keeping to myself about religion were not unique and indeed there were fellow travellers out there that were saying the same things that I had been thinking for years and doing a much better job at it than I ever could.<br /><br />While I certainly don't agree with all that Sam Harris says, although I do agree with a lot of what he says, and would not expect anyone else to, if you are going to attack his ideas then please have the common decency to actually attack his ideas.<br />steve oberskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067724166134333068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-79809346561710477612013-09-25T16:21:49.235-04:002013-09-25T16:21:49.235-04:00Steve, and others, I hope we will tone down the at...Steve, and others, I hope we will tone down the attacks on Andy. He is not as dishonest as most of the theists we've seen here. We've seen far worse. Hell, Egnor infested us twice, and McLatchie is weaseling about on the other thread. Then we have Byers, and I'm sure "John Witton" will be back under another sock puppet.<br /><br />If we chase off all the theists, it'll be pretty boring around here. So can we tone down the attacks?Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-13375218700287402712013-09-25T16:18:12.696-04:002013-09-25T16:18:12.696-04:00Andy, we might be curious about your experiences i...Andy, we might be curious about your experiences in the Middle East. <br /><br />However, your quote #2 was an apparent attempt to equate Harris' statements in #1 to all religious beliefs. If you equate Steve's quote #3 with your #1, then you are conceding that 1 is not equal to 2.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-14273036245081148422013-09-25T16:16:23.163-04:002013-09-25T16:16:23.163-04:00No Andy, all I'm saying is that you appear to ...No Andy, all I'm saying is that you appear to be unwilling to find out what Sam Harris's position is by actually expending any energy on your part and seem to prefer the pre-digested pap excreted by religious fundamentalist web sites.<br /><br />I have actually not stated any position on Sam Harris's claims in this thread, specifically I have not said that I agree or disagree with his views on Islam, nor am I trying to educate you in Islam as it appears to me that you have arrived at your position by non rational means and it would be a waste of time on my part to dissuade you otherwise.<br /><br />My only interest is to expose the outright lies that you have presented here. That you are probably copying them from other sites without bothering to confirm their veracity or indeed understand them does not make you any less culpable.<br /><br />Your 4 years of living and working in the middle east may give you a personal insight into those cultures but based on your lamentable track record for for being less than honest and truthful I will accord it the same value as the rest of your claims, that is none to speak of.<br />steve oberskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067724166134333068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-3050345702108514322013-09-25T15:36:17.802-04:002013-09-25T15:36:17.802-04:00So Steve, you are clearly saying 1==2 in Diogenes ...So Steve, you are clearly saying 1==2 in Diogenes examples. The terrorists are terrorists because they are muslims. The crime, the belief and the religion cannot be separated. You wave the wand and when religion disappears so does the terrorist. Needless to say, I do not agree with you. <br />Thank you for taking your time to explain to me about Islam. As it happens I've spent 4 years living and working in the Middle East. I'm afraid that I have to disappoint you though: your view of Islam does not agree with the reality that I have experienced.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03503746944125068931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-32649033362777677152013-09-25T15:25:06.982-04:002013-09-25T15:25:06.982-04:00Continuing on the topic of nasty anti-evolutionist...Continuing on the topic of nasty anti-evolutionists:<br /><br />You may recall the case of <b>Michael Philip Korn, aka Menachem</b>, a Hebrew Christian who issued death threats against the whole biology department of the U. of Colorado.<br /><br /><i>"your attitude is simply unacceptable for an official of a PUBLIC university:<br /><br />i happen to be one of the Colorado taxpayers who actually pay your salary, and therefore you should have some level of accountability to me and the rest of the citizens of this state.<br /><br />therefore, i will be approaching Chanchellor (sic) Peterson to discuss your attitude to me. i spent a lot of my own money to collect SCIENTIFIC evidence debunking the major claims of evolution. statements from such eminent scientists as Francis Crick and Fred Hoyle are included, amongst hundreds of others.<br /><br />you owe me the minimum level of courtesy of a reasoned response, and not just an arrogant withering insult. IN THE NAME OF THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL, WHO CREATED YOU AND THE CHILDREN YOU ARE INDOCTRINATING WITH UNSCIENTIFIC UNSUBSTANTIATED DARWINIAN FILTH, I DEMAND A REASONED RESPONSE FROM YOU. you might laugh and mock at me, as you do to God who reigns above you. but we shall see who will be laughing after i speak with Chanchellor (sic) Peterson. i also will be approaching the Governor of the State, as well as the State legislature, who pay your salary and authorize your position, as well as the Regents. i will be speaking with my attorney as well, for <b>i am planning to file legal charges against you, accusing you of child molestation.</b> no, not of me, since although i am a child of God i also am an adult. but <b>the children who attend your “university” and who are entrusted into your care, are being intellectually, morally, and spiritually molested by the bogus darwinian theories of nihilism and death</b> that you teach in the name of “higher education”. young persons come to your university seeking guidance, direction and focus for their talents and energies. instead they find professors like you who teach them that life is purposeless, pointless, and meaningless. indeed <b>i charge you and your devilutionist colleagues with being the source of every imaginable evil in our society: drugs, crime, prostitution, corruption, war, abortion, death</b>, for the simple reason that you, the supposed elite of academia, teach our children that life has no higher purpose, value, or meaning. i charge you with being a murderer of souls. if you think i am joking, just <b>wait till we meet in court. “Mr. Big Brains on Biology”</b>: what a sad joke: the co-discoverer of a candidate for the world’s largest living organism, a grove of aspen clones in Utah, that led to a 1993 Discover magazine article titled “The Trembling Giant” can’t even see the forest for the trees. if you want to delude yourself, that is your tragic prerogative. but you cannot be permitted to defraud and deceive our children. <b>you will be held accountable for your malicious actions, attitudes, and satanic beliefs. Sincerely in Christ</b>, [name deleted] Cc: Chancellor Bud Peterson”</i><br /><br />Another letter, apparently from him, read:<br /><br /><i>“Pastor Jerry Gibson spoke at Doug Whites New Day Covenant Church in Boulder. <b>He said that every true Christian should be ready and willing to take up arms to kill the enemies of Christian society. But I believe it is far more effective to take up a pen to kill the enemies of Truth.</b>"</i><br /><br />[<a href="http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/07/threats-against-university-of-colorado-biologists.html" rel="nofollow">Threats against University of Colorado Biologists.</a> Matt Young, Panda's Thumb July 11, 2007.]<br /><br />Again, I don't claim this is "typical" of all anti-evolutionists. Threats of violence are not typical from creationists. What <i>is</i> typical of creationists, especially Intelligent Design proponents, and most especially UDders, is insults, ad hominems and personal attacks.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-14000590434242136592013-09-25T15:12:57.397-04:002013-09-25T15:12:57.397-04:00Continuing on the topic of creationist nastiness: ...Continuing on the topic of creationist nastiness: everyone here knows, or should know, about a certain Canadian creationist who made death threats on all the evolutionist websites. He has recently been seen on this very blog (in the thread "Stockholm: Old Town"), but his comments were deleted. I won't name him because he responds to everyone who uses his ID, and the response is often a death threat. His initials are DM. <br /><br />He was arrested by the Canadian police for threatening them too, and he was under a restraining order to stay away from the internet, but he's out I guess, and back.<br /><br />His typical comments were like:<br /><br /><i>"y wll b *xctd*, lttl blsphmng fckr…"</i><br /><br /><i>"y thnk y r sf, y lttl blsphmng mthr fckr?"</i><br /><br />[Cited <a href="http://dalehusband.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/why-bother-with-religion/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.]<br /><br />A more recent comment, possibly from him, at Sandwalk was:<br /><br />"<i>yes, you have made “REAL ENEMIES”<br /><br />TAM 2013 APOSTASY<br /><br />all brains no balls<br /><br />homo = atheist?<br /><br />amazingmeeting.com/<br /><br />FIGHTING THE FAKERS<br /><br />youtube.com/watch?v=uWLr5zGBC48<br /><br />how we won the James Randi Million Dollar Paranormal Prize" </i><br /><br />Again, I don't present this as "typical" of ID creationists. Most engage in insults and personal attacks. <br /><br />However, if Denyse O'Leary is going to take one comment from an anonymous atheist (possible atheist, we don't know) and attribute that to a whole evolutionist group (TFN) of which this person apparently wasn't a member, then she should really consider what would happen if we took individual quotes as "typical" of all Intelligent Design proponents.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-60678852138016327892013-09-25T15:03:00.817-04:002013-09-25T15:03:00.817-04:00We could provide our own quotes to show what real ...We could provide our own quotes to show what real creationist nastiness is like. Below I will cite are a few.<br /><br />Andy above has attempted to change the subject, I feel, by portraying Sam Harris as being as "Nasty" as the ID creationist posters at Uncommon Descent. I want to get us back on the original topic: the uncivil, rude, threatening behavior of ID creationist fanatics.<br /><br />Andy's quote mine of Sam Harris, besides being a quote mine, is called a "flattening argument", in which you attempt to justify one person's bad behavior by insinuating that, well, all sides are equally guilty. No they're not. I disagree with many things that Sam Harris writes, but he does not engage in ad hominems, personal attacks, fallacies and insults, like the UDders do.<br /><br />So here's a lesson to Andy what real nastiness is like.<br /><br />Sara Ahlmark at Facebook: <i>"“Why is it still fuckin legal for those cock-licking homo pigs to maintain this nazi fucking LIE called evolution. Let tens of thousands of evil DEVILS of ETERNAL flames burns their grandchildren in concentration camps all over the planet. And if that doesn't shut down these cunt morons, I shall personally rip their intenstines through their GOD DAMN nosdrils!...I just get so fucking upset when I hear people talk about this gay shit piece of pussy EVOLUTION. I am NO son of a buttfucking God damn ape, and that's scientific enough for me! Hell yeah! We should decapitate all those bitch slapping freak loving idiots, who think God is dead and who uses the name of Jesus to wipe their infidel pedofile asses."</i> [Sara Ahlmark, <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/we-can-find-1000000-people-who-dont-believe-in-Evolution-befor-June/262702360070?ref=nf#topic_top" rel="nofollow">Facebook comment</a>, cited <a href="http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=70373" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />I'm not presenting the above as "typical" of creationists. It's not. A typical creationist engages in insults, ad hominems and personal attacks, but most don't make threats of violence-- Joe G being an exception.<br /><br />But no, both sides are not the same.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71792496931796781872013-09-25T14:48:09.388-04:002013-09-25T14:48:09.388-04:00Now you are getting closer to a critique of 1. I a...Now you are getting closer to a critique of 1. I agree that 1 is problematic. However, you cited 2 in a way that made it appear 1 == 2. So let us clarify that Harris does NOT equate 1 and 2.<br /><br />Having gotten that deception out of the way, your statement "Terrorism is a crime, belief is not" is in fact valid relevant to 1.<br /><br />Here is a real-world case more relevant to Harris' point:<br /><br />Wikipedia: <i>"Anwar al-Awlaki (also spelled al-Aulaqi; Arabic: أنور العولقي Anwar al-‘Awlaqī; April 21, 1971 – September 30, 2011) was an American[7] and Yemeni imam and Islamic militant.[8][9] U.S. government officials said that he was a senior talent recruiter and motivator who was involved in planning terrorist operations for the Islamist militant group al-Qaeda.With a blog, a Facebook page, the al-Qaeda magazine Inspire, and many YouTube videos, the Saudi news station Al Arabiya described him as the "bin Laden of the Internet."[17][18] After a request from the U.S. Congress, in November 2010 YouTube removed many of Awlaki's videos.[19]<br /><br />U.S. officials say that as imam at a mosque in Falls Church, Virginia (2001–02), which had 3,000 members, al-Awlaki spoke with and preached to three of the 9/11 hijackers, who were al-Qaeda members.[20] In 2001, he presided at the funeral of the mother of <b>Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army psychiatrist who later e-mailed him extensively in 2008–09 before the Fort Hood shootings.</b>[21][22] During al-Awlaki's later radical period after 2006–07, when he went into hiding, he was associated with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian who attempted the 2009 Christmas Day bombing of an American airliner.[23][24][25] Al-Awlaki was allegedly involved in planning the latter's attack.<br /><br />The Yemeni government began trying him in absentia in November 2010, for plotting to kill foreigners and being a member of al-Qaeda. A Yemeni judge ordered that he be captured "dead or alive."[26][27] U.S. officials said that in 2009, al-Awlaki was promoted to the rank of "regional commander" within al-Qaeda.[28][29] He repeatedly called for jihad against the United States.[30][31]<br /><br />In April 2010, U.S. President Barack Obama placed al-Awlaki on a list of people whom the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency was authorized to kill because of terrorist activities.[32][33][34] The "targeted killing" of an American citizen was unprecedented. Al-Awlaki's father and civil rights groups challenged the order in court.[32][34][35][36] Al-Awlaki was believed to be in hiding in Southeast Yemen in the last years of his life.[26] The U.S. deployed unmanned aircraft (drones) in Yemen to search for and kill him,[37] firing at and failing to kill him at least once,[38] before succeeding in a fatal American drone attack in Yemen on September 30, 2011."</i><br /><br />What should we have done with this man's beliefs?Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71983265856317242182013-09-25T14:38:26.129-04:002013-09-25T14:38:26.129-04:00@Andy, it's patently obvious that you either h...@Andy, it's patently obvious that you either have no interest in discovering Sam Harris's actual position on these matters and/or are just too lazy or incompetent to find out for yourself.<br /><br /><i>The principal tenet of Jainism is non-harming. Observant Jains will literally not harm a fly. Fundamentalist Jainism and fundamentalist Islam do not have the same consequences, neither logically nor behaviorally.</i><br /><br /><i>The truth that we must finally confront is that Islam contains specific notions of martyrdom and jihad that fully explain the character of Muslim violence.</i><br /><br /><i>It is time we recognized—and obliged the Muslim world to recognize—that “Muslim extremism” is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. In Islam, we confront a civilization with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and the Christians of the 14th century are pouring into our world.</i><br /><br /><i>Anyone who imagines that terrestrial concerns account for Muslim terrorism must answer questions of the following sort: Where are the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation far more brutal, and far more cynical, than any that Britain, the United States, or Israel have ever imposed upon the Muslim world. Where are the throngs of Tibetans ready to perpetrate suicidal atrocities against Chinese noncombatants? They do not exist. What is the difference that makes the difference? The difference lies in the specific tenets of Islam. This is not to say that Buddhism could not help inspire suicidal violence. It can, and it has (Japan, World War II). But this concedes absolutely nothing to the apologists for Islam. As a Buddhist, one has to work extremely hard to justify such barbarism. One need not work nearly so hard as a Muslim. If you doubt whether the comparison is valid, ask yourself where the Palestinian Christian suicide bombers are. Palestinian Christians also suffer the indignity of the Israeli occupation. This is practically a science experiment: take the same people, speaking the same language, put them in the same horrendous circumstance, but give them slightly different religious beliefs—and then watch what happens. What happens is, they behave differently.</i>steve oberskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067724166134333068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-27508222155461121402013-09-25T13:42:51.969-04:002013-09-25T13:42:51.969-04:00In example 1 is the relevant fact that the Imam ha...In example 1 is the relevant fact that the Imam has belief or is it that he is a terrorist? Why does Harris write about belief in this context? Terrorism is a crime, belief is not.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03503746944125068931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-8813041923302889482013-09-25T13:24:45.509-04:002013-09-25T13:24:45.509-04:00Andy copied two quotes from Harris, referring to d...Andy copied two quotes from Harris, referring to different sets of beliefs, to which Harris proposes different treatment. Andy told us that both quotes referred to the same sets of belief, and seemed to insinuate us that Harris wants them treated the same way.<br /><br />Andy wrote: <i>"In case there is any doubt as to which beliefs that Sam Harris considers a danger to society...</i>" and then he re-copied the first quote.<br /><br />I interpret that as Andy equating the two sets of beliefs referred to by Harris.<br /><br />To be clear, there are two sets of beliefs referred to by Harris:<br /><br />1. First quote: Extremist beliefs, like terrorist imams. It might be necessary to kill those who propose them.<br /><br />2. Second quote: Religion in general- Harris would like to make them disappear harmlessly, by magic<br /><br />Andy seemed to insinuate that 1 == 2. I've read Harris so I know for sure 1 does not equal 2.<br /><br />1 is problematic-- I don't agree with everything Harris says. If we are to disagree with Harris, let's disagree with <b>what he actually wrote, and not a straw-man misrepresentation</b>. That would be more fun. Agreed?Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-44073163731565154042013-09-25T13:18:44.306-04:002013-09-25T13:18:44.306-04:00Misplaced my comment, see below.Misplaced my comment, see below.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-38106358924767202782013-09-25T13:18:07.212-04:002013-09-25T13:18:07.212-04:00News is a pseudonym for O'Leary.
Moreover, in...News is a pseudonym for O'Leary.<br /><br />Moreover, in <a href="http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/i-would-like-to-cut-off-the-heads-of-these-fanatics-and-spit-in-it/" rel="nofollow">O'Leary's August demand for censorship of evolution</a>, she identifies "News" as O'Leary in a footnote. I copied the footnote but elided this, and replaced it with the ellipsis.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/why-not-just-ban-discussions-of-evolution-in-textbooks/" rel="nofollow">O'Leary's September demand for censorship of evolution</a> is signed "O’Leary for News".Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-56554958801416676582013-09-25T11:26:56.747-04:002013-09-25T11:26:56.747-04:00Well, YOU connected them by adding the second quot...Well, YOU connected them by adding the second quotation as a supplement to the first. It's such cut-and-paste manipulations that make Harris sound sinister. But I'm glad you didn't really want to insinuate anything.Piotr Gąsiorowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339278493073512102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-69217585912348507962013-09-25T10:55:55.829-04:002013-09-25T10:55:55.829-04:00Piotr, I would never suggest any such thing. I'...Piotr, I would never suggest any such thing. I'm not sure why you insist on connecting the two quotes that are merely meant as examples of people that tend to express themselves in a way that could be perceived as nasty...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03503746944125068931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-72480495526543902862013-09-25T10:28:44.166-04:002013-09-25T10:28:44.166-04:00Good catch, Diogenes.
One question, though. How ...Good catch, Diogenes.<br /><br />One question, though. How do you know that was written by Denyse O'Leary. The article is just signed by "News". Is that a pseudonym of hers? That said, the unhinged rhetoric and, shall we say, somewhat loose acquaintance with facts is typical of her. Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-10222389476576200302013-09-25T08:03:03.649-04:002013-09-25T08:03:03.649-04:00So, if I understand what you are driving at, you j...So, if I understand what you are driving at, you juxtapose the two quotes to insinuate that Harris would consider it justifiable to exterminate all religious people "in self-defence". Quote-mining is still quote-mining, even if you copy three paragraphs in a row (most likely from <b><a href="http://aloadofbright.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/misquoting-harris/" rel="nofollow">here</a></b>). Piotr Gąsiorowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339278493073512102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-61499847407471357522013-09-25T07:56:22.282-04:002013-09-25T07:56:22.282-04:00@Andy, you are correct when you say that rape and ...@Andy, you are correct when you say that rape and religion are both based on misogyny and patriarchy and I agree with you that religion causes far more damage to the well being of human beings given that it celebrates the primitive, anti-human morality of nomadic goat herders who considered women to be chattels to be disposed of as seen by the most powerful male relatives.<br /><br />You have correctly pointed out that while rape is a particular symptom of the disgusting moral system promulgated by most religions, the core problem is religion and any other non evidence based ideological system.<br />steve oberskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067724166134333068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-21693538532683223292013-09-24T23:29:29.759-04:002013-09-24T23:29:29.759-04:00In case there is any doubt as to which beliefs tha...In case there is any doubt as to which beliefs that Sam Harris considers a danger to society...<br />"If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would not hesitate to get rid of religion. I think more people are dying as a result of our religious myths than as a result of any other ideology. I would not say that all human conflict is born of religion or religious differences, but for the human community to be fractured on the basis of religious doctrines that are fundamentally incompatible, in an age when nuclear weapons are proliferating, is a terrifying scenario."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03503746944125068931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-65888252107708519342013-09-24T23:19:40.096-04:002013-09-24T23:19:40.096-04:00Piotr, how does reading the whole context change t...Piotr, how does reading the whole context change the meaning? The message is very clear. You have grown up in a totalitarian state. Can you not see where this kind of idea leads? Stalin for one knew the value of preemptive strikes against people with the wrong beliefs...<br />"The power that belief has over our emotional lives appears to be total. For every emotion that you are capable of feeling, there is surely a belief that could invoke it in a matter of moments. Consider the following proposition:<br /><br />Your daughter is being slowly tortured in an English jail.<br /><br />What is it that stands between you and the absolute panic that such a proposition would loose in the mind and body of a person who believed it? Perhaps you do not have a daughter, or you know her to be safely at home, or you believe that English jailors are renowned for their congeniality. Whatever the reason, the door to belief has not yet swung upon its hinges.<br /><br />The link between belief and behaviour raises the stakes considerably. Some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them. This may seem an extraordinary claim, but it merely enunciates an ordinary fact about the world in which we live. Certain beliefs place their adherents beyond the reach of every peaceful means of persuasion, while inspiring them to commit acts of extraordinary violence against others. There is, in fact, no talking to some people. If they cannot be captured, and they often cannot, otherwise tolerant people may be justified in killing them in self-defense. This is what the United States attempted in Afghanistan, and it is what we and other Western powers are bound to attempt, at an even greater cost to ourselves and to innocents abroad, elsewhere in the Muslim world. We will continue to spill blood in what is, at bottom, a war of ideas. (The End of Faith, p52-53.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03503746944125068931noreply@blogger.com