tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post3446110765993264833..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Canadian Government Allocates Funds to Investigate "Liberation Treatment" for Multiple Sclerosis: Sacrificing Science at the Altar of Consumer DemandLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-28992146330526828172012-06-22T21:42:24.441-04:002012-06-22T21:42:24.441-04:00I have a friend who traveled from Canada to Califo...I have a friend who traveled from Canada to California to have this treatment in a private clinic. She paid thousands of dollars. That was in Dec. 2011. Her M.S. symptoms were not reduced, in fact some of them increased. 24 hrs ago she had a stroke. She is only 58. Please, don't waste your money on this, until it has been proven to work by legitimate agencies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-75053918341905840082012-06-13T10:43:19.912-04:002012-06-13T10:43:19.912-04:00I realize this is a late reply, but there is new n...I realize this is a late reply, but there is new news on the "liberation" front. Zamboni's followed up on his original results and found only a weak positive effect at two years post-treatment (PMID 22687168); quite the drop from the 100% "success" he originally reported.<br /><br />A Canadian study (by William Pryse-Phillips; I've only found news reports of the study), following up on MS patients who went overseas for treatment, showed no significant effect.<br /><br />I guess I need to change my original post - there is some good evidence now that it doesn't work - makes you wonder what purpose the proposed Canadian trial could possibly have...Bryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16672407110077541595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-62501554809329682272012-06-07T16:17:25.163-04:002012-06-07T16:17:25.163-04:00I am a subject in a well designed treatment trial ...I am a subject in a well designed treatment trial (PREMiSe, by the University at Buffalo NeuroSurgery department). While I expect this study to give us some answers, it is too small, and should be replicated at several sites to get a true picture.<br /><br />I felt that as long as the Interventional Radiologist (in my case, a Neurosurgeon) doing the procedure has a proven track record, the risks were so small that it has been well worth my while to be a participant in this study, regardless of whether I was in the treatment or placebo arms.<br /><br />With MS, ANY positive change is worth some risk, because the alternative is continous deterioration.Mossmanorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212220392057738325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-38762052507759204692012-06-07T15:38:04.697-04:002012-06-07T15:38:04.697-04:00On the contrary, there are several very credible s...<i>On the contrary, there are several very credible studies which had been undertaken which show a positive correlation between MS and deformed veins. Unfortunately, there have been some studies showing no correlation</i><br />Biased, much? Its not "unfortunate" that some studies see no correlation, its reality. Its only unfortunate, as those studies run counter to your pre-derived conclusions - as witnessed by your attempts to demonize those studies which run contrary to your beliefs.<br /><br />Real scientists - i.e. Larry & I - don't have the luxury of simply rejecting studies we find inconvenient to our pet theories.<br /><br />And whether or not their are vein abnormalities is only relevant if they are either causative to MS (i.e. it is the presence of the abnormal veins that causes MS), or if "fixing" the veins reverses symptoms or slows their progression. The former is almost certainly untrue - no biological mechanism by which reduced blood flow could lead to lesions typical of MS has ever been posited; indeed, the very concept runs contrary to what is known of MS. The later remains an open question, which is why properly designed trials are needed.<br /><br />And there is one last issue which Larry touched on - angioplasty is not without risk. Even if it reverses symptoms, the risk of the surgery may far exceed its benefits. Once again, properly designed trials will provide a clear assessment of costs and benefits.<br /><br />The politician-created Canadian trial is too small and too poorly designed to meet any of those goals.Bryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16672407110077541595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-82252484587075501322012-06-07T14:30:03.847-04:002012-06-07T14:30:03.847-04:00On the contrary, there are several very credible s...On the contrary, there are several very credible studies which had been undertaken which show a positive correlation between MS and deformed veins. Unfortunately, there have been some studies showing no correlation. However, ultrasound was used in these studies and, in the case of the ultrasound studies, the wide variance in outcomes simply shows that ultrasound is operator dependent and that knowledge of veins is needed. Venopgraphy is the gold standard of detecting stenosis and none of the negative studies used these. The negative studies were done by neurologists, who are not specialists in vein function and anatomy. In fact, one study by the National MS Society, done on cadavers, with direct physical observation, showed that people with MS often have abnormalities which cannot be detected by ultrasound, namely, webbing and other artifacts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-61278930139331148682012-06-07T14:13:34.196-04:002012-06-07T14:13:34.196-04:00I see the kooks struck early.
While I generally...I see the kooks struck early. <br /><br />While I generally agree with you Larry, I'm not quite as strong in my criticism. There are a lot of questions in regards to the "liberation therapy"; it seems to function via a mechanism unrelated to the known basis of MS (i.e. autoimmunity), its unclear if blocked veins are diagnostic in MS patients [blockage rates vary greatly in trials - from 100% (zamboni) to ~50% (various other trials), with non-MS patients having these blockages from 0% (zamboni) to ~35% (other studies)], and zamboni's result has not yet been replicated.<br /><br />None of that means it doesn't work - but conversely - the data in hand is also doesn't tell us if it does work. While it seems unlikely that this treatment has the potential to cure MS, if it alleviates the symptoms it may still be a useful tool in the MD's toolbox. Trials are needed to determine the efficacy (if any) of the procedure.<br /><br />The thing is, those trials are underway, and on a scale much larger than the approved 100-person trial. IMO, the proposed trial is merely playing politics - its existence was due to the pressure of politicians, its size is insufficient to provide robust data, and by the sounds of it, it isn't even well designed (unblinded + uncontrolled).<br /><br />Clinical trials should only occur where there is a valid reason for doing so, and when the trial itself is designed in a way to provide meaningful results. This trial appears to meet neither of those conditions - far larger trials are in progress, and the design of the trial is quite poor. <br /><br />Patients shouldn't be experimented on, just to make politicians look good.Bryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16672407110077541595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-52837965186447003592012-06-07T14:10:50.236-04:002012-06-07T14:10:50.236-04:00Massive study disputes Zamboni theory of multiple ...<i>Massive study disputes Zamboni theory of multiple sclerosis</i><br /><br />http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/massive-study-disputes-zamboni-theory-of-multiple-sclerosis/article590119/<br /><br />Many studies by Dr. Zamboni and his allies have found blocked veins in the majority of MS patients and few, if any, cases in healthy control subjects. They also say many patients who have had the vein-widening procedure experience a decrease in symptoms or their severity. <b>Some scientists conducting those studies receive substantial sums from patients to conduct the vein-widening procedure</b>.<br /><br />On the other hand, a growing body of research from a variety of academic centres has been unable to replicate the findings. For instance, this week a study published in the Archives of Neurology found no significant difference in venous abnormalities between MS patients and healthy controls.<br /><br />The results “refute that hypothesis and corroborate those of other investigators who have recently been unable to replicate the Zamboni et al observations,” the study authors wrote.<br /><br /><i>No benefits from Zamboni “liberation” MS treatment: Sullivan</i><br /><br />http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2012-06-07/article-3002320/No-benefits-from-Zamboni-%26ldquoliberation%26rdquo-MS-treatment%3A-Sullivan/1<br /><br />The province refused to fund the treatment, but in September 2010 the government put up $400,000 to do an observational study on the results of the disorder.<br /><br />Sullivan said the study resulted in "no measurable, objective benefit."<br /><br /><i>Nova Scotia Health and Wellness POSITION STATEMENT<br />Venous Imaging and Venous Angioplasty in Multiple Sclerosis (MS)</i><br /><br />http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CHAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.ns.ca%2Fhealth%2Fms-position-statement%2Fms-position-statement-physician-information.pdf&ei=b-3QT42-OofS6gH544V8&usg=AFQjCNFrbsgt4bQRnpPl_CLyCJg5g5407A&sig2=gppON1Fqf_RedrcRLCVUQQ<br /><br />In his second study, Dr. Zamboni performed venous angioplasty on MS patients with coexistent CCSVI (as defined in his first study).steve oberskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-31177220666671221352012-06-07T13:51:16.282-04:002012-06-07T13:51:16.282-04:00From the Free online Dictionary: "Quackery: f...From the Free online Dictionary: "Quackery: false pretense to medical skill, knowledge, or qualification; medical charlatanry"<br /><br />Advocating an unproven treatment for an unproven condition without clearly identifying it as such easily qualifies.<br /><br />Also, it's certainly not true that all or even most biochemists are funded by big pharma (that's just not how academia works) - Larry stated in the post where most of the funding in his Dept comes from.<br /><br />By the way, Larry - there's a typo in the title of the post ("alter").konradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-63633084104847280252012-06-07T13:36:43.261-04:002012-06-07T13:36:43.261-04:00As soon as I read "He (Dr. Zamboni)has been t...As soon as I read "He (Dr. Zamboni)has been treating patients from all over the world for the past few years. As you might have guessed, the treatment at his clinic is not free", I knew this guy writing this blog really knows nothing and is just making things up to try to get his negativity across. DR. ZAMBONI DOES NO TREATMENTS. This blog is a waste of time--I'm going to spend my time enjoying a better quality of life that this treatment has given me!Lori Batchelornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-38979389514765847752012-06-07T12:05:51.387-04:002012-06-07T12:05:51.387-04:00The writer's comment about quackery nullifies ...The writer's comment about quackery nullifies and invalidates this article. His title of biochemist is almost an assurance that he receives funding or benefit from the pharma corps. I've had the procedure and can testify it's remarkable improvements to me. Shameful that a person such as the writer can degrade such science and be taken serious by some.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com