tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post2901239731815848561..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Why can't we teach properly?Larry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-30493238034948410992015-01-13T16:01:52.207-05:002015-01-13T16:01:52.207-05:00I'm not going to belittle the contributions of...I'm not going to belittle the contributions of educational researchers (done some of that myself), but, if someone is going to teach Biochemistry, it's pretty important that s/he read widely and deeply in the primary Biochemical literature - even to the extent of being able to write a textbook on the subject! <br /><br />My colleagues who are primarily "scholars of teaching" don't do that; as a result, they teach exclusively in the elementary and service courses. And the faculty who are the most highly regarded teachers at our place are among the more active biochemical researchers, too. <br /><br />We would do better by evaluating teaching potential more stringently when making Assistant Professor appointments. But in this fiscal climate, I doubt we will - getting the RO1's is primary. <br /><br /><br /><br />franklyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15938727764470608358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-29874340534835804402015-01-13T15:24:13.568-05:002015-01-13T15:24:13.568-05:00frank;y says,
Finally, I hope that this push will...frank;y says,<br /><br /><i>Finally, I hope that this push will not be an excuse to separate Research Faculty from Teaching Faculty because there is real value in learning something from a scholar, even if s/he isn't very engaging/entertaining. </i><br /><br />First, teaching faulty are scholars. Their main research interest is education (pedagogy) and they publish scholarly work in that field. <br /><br />Second, almost all of the innovations and improvements in teaching undergraduates come from teaching faulty. There are very few prominent lab researchers who have contributed to the changes in the way we teach. (There are some.) If we are going to improve our teaching then we need instructors whose main interest is education. <br /><br />Having said that, I agree with you that students need to be exposed to professors who are thinking actively about particular biological problems. Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-31850362921780167052015-01-13T11:19:13.158-05:002015-01-13T11:19:13.158-05:00The issue is how to engage students. We faculty fo...The issue is how to engage students. We faculty forget that we were inherently engaged - that's how we got to be where we are. Fewer than 10% of our undergrads have the same motivation; most are there for a credential (admittance to Medical School, job, etc.) or "the college experience" (sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll plus football).<br /><br />I've been using these techniques for 25+ years, and started doing some of it as an Asst. Professor. But not everyone can do this sort of thing for personality reasons if no other: you have to enjoy performing, and not all my colleagues do. <br /><br />Finally, I hope that this push will not be an excuse to separate Research Faculty from Teaching Faculty because there is real value in learning something from a scholar, even if s/he isn't very engaging/entertaining. franklyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15938727764470608358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-54205251023421666332015-01-13T04:54:23.514-05:002015-01-13T04:54:23.514-05:00I don't see this as new. I've had mostly s...I don't see this as new. I've had mostly small class, discussion based classes since ninth grade, going back to 1959. It's good when the teacher is good. But I've seen a professor shut down discussion for a whole term with aggressive challenging. This can quickly get to be personality driven.<br /><br />As noted, this is a skill. I've also seen a few great lecturers.Petrushkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02343702725399620404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-62047155800424772852015-01-12T23:51:13.881-05:002015-01-12T23:51:13.881-05:00I think also the hand holding of students has to s...I think also the hand holding of students has to stop. Students are at University by choice, so its time to own up and stop blaming others.Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01243905647317437724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-33009944710119963692015-01-12T23:49:07.569-05:002015-01-12T23:49:07.569-05:00I think you nailed the reason that this does not h...I think you nailed the reason that this does not happen. Universities want research grant money and they know that by actually enforcing this research is going to lag. Or they are going to have start paying serious amounts of extra cash to to have two sets of staff members 1) those that teach undergrad in ways that work and don't research and 2) those that teach post grad the old school way and research.<br /><br />I personally believe the problem is what people and University boards expect of universities these days. Are they for education or research?Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01243905647317437724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-87990479948582059452015-01-12T15:11:22.070-05:002015-01-12T15:11:22.070-05:00While I keep hearing that there is all this resear...While I keep hearing that there is all this research on the superiority of the flipped classroom, a recent (2013) analysis of such studies indicates that the support is not as strong as it is often portrayed and often anecdotal:<br />http://www.studiesuccesho.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/flipped-classroom-artikel.pdfnmanninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767343547942014627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-91273724779339886002015-01-12T15:06:53.289-05:002015-01-12T15:06:53.289-05:00Whenever this topic comes up, I am struck by the w...Whenever this topic comes up, I am struck by the way the university culture - research success is the main, sometimes only source of career advancement - is always presented as some kind of outside force imposed on university faculty who would be happy to teach more and research less (or, at least spend less time on those time-sinks universally agreed to be awful, such as meetings). <br /><br />I suspect that a small fraction of current faculty in science departments at Canadian universities obtained their PhDs and pursued an academic career primarily because they wanted to teach undergraduates and graduate students. The overwhelming majority, in contrast, did all that because they like doing research and clearly, university professors do research. The freedom of inquiry offered to a university professor is extremely appealing to someone who wishes to pursue their intellectual curiosity as far as they can. Teaching might be fun, enjoyable, rewarding, and a well-known and accepted part of the job. But it's not the main point of that career path for most people on that career path.<br /><br />This attitude of teaching being secondary is not something imposed by university bureacrats and administrators upon a hapless, disorganized faculty. It comes from the life experience and goals of those faculty, who for the most part (it seems to me) are quite happy to spend as much of their time as possible on research.<br /><br />Good teaching is clearly important. Developing and using new methods to improve teaching effectiveness is a great idea. But aiming the conversation at the unfeeling upper administrators who must be preventing the faculty from engaging with teaching improvement is to miss the true motivation - most profs want to spend more time in the lab, not more time in the classroom. They don't feel this way because of the career incentives, the career incentives are in place because they feel this way. TheBrummellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08973380652057861796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-28017578836477885052015-01-12T10:09:12.891-05:002015-01-12T10:09:12.891-05:00It is not possible to teach concepts and principle...It is not possible to teach concepts and principles without showing examples, and exceptions.Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-13995862101580944372015-01-12T01:46:01.130-05:002015-01-12T01:46:01.130-05:00A general question: how is it possible to teach co...A general question: how is it possible to teach concepts and principles without providing examples (non-rotely, of course)? Without instantiation, what is the content of the abstractions being taught? Isn't it reasonable to teach the principles via the examples?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12077547082687746169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71247600589224008622015-01-12T00:48:58.003-05:002015-01-12T00:48:58.003-05:00I heard all this jazz about teaching methods back ...I heard all this jazz about teaching methods back in the 70/80's.<br />It didn't then or the lack of it make a difference.<br />They stressed thinking critically too. I think critically but its because one found they wrong about everything.<br />In fact in science stuff the very essence of it is to NOT question conclusions. SCIENCE is fact. so how can a culture of 'questioning" exist a thing that is beyond questioning save by legitimate people.?<br />ID and YEC are today the stuff of critical thinking with a rejection of what was taught in what one thought about.<br />Science subjects have great interest for those kids who do have an interest.<br />Including those BUMPED out of these universities by a few marks by those who need a science course etc to get some profession etc etc.<br />I think more kids, including pound for pound, care about science and know more then anytime in our history. When was it better percentage wise?<br /><br />Getting kids involved in science class is getting people involved in things they know nothing about.<br />It interferes with teaching.<br />The profs are the knowing ones and should do the teaching.<br /><br />Introduce, a wee wee bit, of the creationist/evolutionist "debate" and there will be more interest and less dozing.<br />Also from the establishment.<br />Robert Byershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05631863870635096770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-67033011726921000342015-01-11T20:58:18.936-05:002015-01-11T20:58:18.936-05:00Having students spontaneously answer questions in ...Having students spontaneously answer questions in front of everyone is not what happens in a well-run student-centered classroom. Usually the professor has students discuss a topic or question with a small group first and come up with an answer that is to be shared with the class. If done properly, students know that they will be sharing answers and have had time to prepare a response. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15473670971383045020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-9592762660511494562015-01-11T20:09:46.785-05:002015-01-11T20:09:46.785-05:00While much of the above is true, I had no problem ...While much of the above is true, I had no problem with my professors who, decades ago, used the traditional lecture approach. I recall one of the most impressive (both regarding teaching and research) telling us that he had lost his grant. I suspect that the peer-review rachet has been progressively eliminating this professorial species. His type are now thin on the ground. A new market-orientated type now dominates the academic corridors of power. Teaching problems are but a symptom of this deeper malaise (http://post.queensu.ca/~forsdyke/peerrev.htm).Donald Forsdykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18038104286639798795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-16179477560070345602015-01-11T19:19:55.179-05:002015-01-11T19:19:55.179-05:00I used clickers in an introductory astronomy class...I used clickers in an introductory astronomy class and loved how my professor used them. If a large majority of the class did not answer the question correctly he would give students a second chance. He did this by asking if some student could give a hint or ask a question that would clarify something important. After the second attempt the professor would point out the correct answer and give an explanation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-49185489013151547332015-01-11T16:08:14.073-05:002015-01-11T16:08:14.073-05:00"... there are three faulty members ..."..."... there are three <i>faulty</i> members ..."<br />Really?<br /><br />I do hope that's a typo.Susannah Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11923063322849781223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-61439410554489737282015-01-11T15:27:28.294-05:002015-01-11T15:27:28.294-05:00My experience with University was well over three ...My experience with University was well over three decades ago, but even then we had Profs who simply recited a script from the front of the hall, and others who engaged the students, were animated and encouraged questions and discussion. <br /><br />When I took intro chem, there were two profs teaching it. Within three weeks, the one class was half empty and the other was breaking fire code due to over crowding. <br /><br />I think a large part of the problem is the fact that to obtain tenure, you had to do research and teach. Being an excellent researcher is no guarantee that you are a good teacher; and you can be an excellent teacher but not have what it takes to be a good researcher. William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-15591712049297684372015-01-11T14:28:42.789-05:002015-01-11T14:28:42.789-05:00Some students many not like it. However, this serv...Some students many not like it. However, this serves a valuable and underappreciated purpose - all students in the room can learn a lot from it, even if one of them is made uncomfortable. <br /><br />One learns not just by reading what is correct, knowing what is not correct and why is also essential for full understanding. You can't ever hope to come up with all misconceptions about a subject on your own and have them answered in detail by someone with more expertise than you on an individual basis - such people are in short supply and have limited time and energy. Thus overall it is better to have students answer questions in front of everyone else with the teacher/professor correcting them publicly. <br /><br />Also, my experience has been that the (admittedly very few ;) ) occasions on which I have embarrassed myself publicly that way (the educational system in Bulgaria uses exactly that method) have served as the kind of kick in the behind one needs from time to time to stimulate him to invest more effort into learning. <br /><br />But I do understand that different people respond differently and it can have negative effects on some students. Georgi Marinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12226357993389417752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-62494168771079223772015-01-11T14:17:33.779-05:002015-01-11T14:17:33.779-05:00It's interesting that clickers were brought up...It's interesting that clickers were brought up. I see how they could be useful in allowing students to answer questions in a less confrontational way than the microphone method. But it is interesting how ideas come into fashion and fall out again. When I was an undergraduate in the 1990s, some lecture halls had buttons on the desks but they didn't do anything. I asked about them once and learned that during the 1960s they were used to allow students to answer questions but they didn't do that anymore.Jonathan Badgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04921990886076027719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-42102989563803827092015-01-11T13:32:24.314-05:002015-01-11T13:32:24.314-05:00@ Larry... LOL!
I still need to contradict you o...@ Larry... LOL!<br /><br />I still need to contradict you on your clever retort. Reading is passive.<br /><br />Engaged learning is different than passive learning.<br /><br />The Hillis Textbook, Principles of Life is outstanding in this respect:<br /><br />The student is given a diagnostic test to do at home. The student then proceeds with a custom-made tutorial that emphasizes what the student needs to master and de-emphasizes what the student already has mastered.<br /><br />The student interacts with the tutorial. For example, the tutorial will interrupt and explain that some immediate error was typical of a certain category of misconception. In this manner error is not “fossilized”.<br /><br />Meanwhile, the teacher/professor can with a simple click of a computer mouse quickly asses the state of learning and misconception in his/her class before starting class and proceed accordingly.<br /><br />Much of the so-called lower-level of Bloom's Taxonomy can accordingly be accomplished by the student on their own while higher levels can be left for the classroom. <br /><br />I could continue to wax eloquent, but perhaps would be wasting effort.<br /><br />I had this discussion with professors in Biochemistry and Medicine at our local campus. It would appear that much of this marvelous technology is available at lower levels but has yet to reach textbooks in higher level courses.<br /><br />Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-11387412173306980932015-01-11T12:41:35.539-05:002015-01-11T12:41:35.539-05:00There's also the problem that researchers want...<i>There's also the problem that researchers want to be known as researchers and not as teachers</i><br /><br />That's the key to the problem (or at rather half of it, the other half is the financial incentives of departments and universities, which are also stacked in the direction of more research and less teaching).<br /><br />However, after some thinking on the subject, it is not hard to see that in the long term it is in everyone's interest (including the faculty and the departments) to invest more of the available resources in teaching. Because if that is not done, there will come a time when they will just cease to exist (first the faculty as a class, and then the institutions too), as a result of not investing enough effort in and doing a good enough job at teaching prior to that (among a number of other factors). <br /><br />Cranking out a few more papers that will be mostly likely not read by more than a couple dozen of people clearly pales in importance compared to that prospectGeorgi Marinovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12226357993389417752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-36032775575590180032015-01-11T12:36:31.480-05:002015-01-11T12:36:31.480-05:00I forgot to mention that one of the impediments to...I forgot to mention that one of the impediments to change is active resistance from teachers. They are very good at finding excuses. Most of those excuses involve some variant of "the old way worked for me ..." or "I wouldn't have liked the new way when I was an undergraduate." What they forget is that they figured out how to get good grades in the old system and that's why they are now teachers. Of course they liked it. They were successful.<br /><br />But did they learn how to think critically? :-)Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-62959802654811479242015-01-11T12:27:21.874-05:002015-01-11T12:27:21.874-05:00The old style of teaching IS boring. In our large ...The old style of teaching IS boring. In our large biochemistry classes we still expect students to memorize the names of the glycolysis enzymes and the number of ATPs produced by the complete oxidation of glucose. Keep in mind that the underlying objective is to teach students how to think (critical thinking) and it's very hard to do that if you make them sit still and listen to a sage on the stage. Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-16584780710720140082015-01-11T12:13:31.356-05:002015-01-11T12:13:31.356-05:00@Joe
I think that using clickers is one very good...@Joe<br /><br />I think that using clickers is one very good way of creating a student-centered learning environment in a large class. It has the added advantage of focusing on teaching concepts instead of facts, as you note. <br /><br />I don't know of a single paper in the pedagogical literature that defends the technique of rote memorization and regurgitation of facts. All of them agree that we should be teaching basic concepts and principles. This is not the same as promoting student-centered learning since, in theory, you can have one without the other. <br /><br />There was a time in the past when the "flipped" classroom was commonplace except that the students were supposed to read the textbook before class not watch a video. Today, most teachers think that students aren't capable of reading a textbook so they have to assign short videos with lot of pictures. Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-34438166196968915842015-01-11T11:49:32.418-05:002015-01-11T11:49:32.418-05:00oops.
I meant to say http://www.utexas.edu/academ...oops.<br /><br />I meant to say http://www.utexas.edu/academic/ctl/largeclasses/#tbl<br /><br />found here<br /><br />http://www.utexas.edu/academic/ctl/largeclasses/Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-43531216816787244762015-01-11T11:32:46.773-05:002015-01-11T11:32:46.773-05:00Hi Joe,
There are many versions of flipping a cla...Hi Joe,<br /><br />There are many versions of flipping a classroom.<br /><br />I agree with Gary Stager, a longtime educational consultant and advocate of laptops in classrooms, who thinks Khan Academy isn’t innovative at all. "The videos and software modules, … , are just a high tech version of that most hoary of teaching techniques—lecturing and drilling.” <br /><br /><br />I agree that learning occurs best when students are engaged in an interactive fashion. That explains why I am leaning more and more on http://masteringbiology.com/ which has interactive tutorials and visuals.<br /><br /><br />The results have so far been spectacular! The classroom dynamic is changing as students arrive in class having learned material at home. As they enter I already know which bits and pieces pose difficulty (a great feature of the masteringbiology site). I quickly troubleshoot before providing a brief in-class evaluation and moving on to do the real interesting stuff.<br />Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.com