tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post8609100968220397869..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: USA Is Ahead of the World in Science EducationLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-88106314987691163352009-03-01T09:09:00.000-05:002009-03-01T09:09:00.000-05:00Archer says,You can't use K-12 as a stick to beat ...Archer says,<BR/><BR/><I>You can't use K-12 as a stick to beat up American universities, and you can't use American universities to give honour to a K-12 system that has little to recommend it. They are two different systems.</I><BR/><BR/>What's your point. Are you claiming that post-secondary education in the USA is significantly better than that in India, Japan, Germany and Australia?<BR/><BR/>Are you claiming that university students in the USA are much more scientifically literate than students in, say, Canada or Chile?Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-8840278076352759742009-03-01T00:29:00.000-05:002009-03-01T00:29:00.000-05:00It doesn't do to talk about American K-12 educatio...It doesn't do to talk about American K-12 education and and American university education as if they were the same system. They are not. They are distinctly funded and administered. They have different standards and serve a different pool of students.<BR/><BR/>This divide between the two does not exist in every country. But in America it does.<BR/><BR/>The news item is about universities. (The title is misleading because it does not specify this fact.) Many of the remarks posted since are about American K-12 education.<BR/><BR/>You can't use K-12 as a stick to beat up American universities, and you can't use American universities to give honour to a K-12 system that has little to recommend it. They are two different systems.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-60051738668293376702009-03-01T00:15:00.000-05:002009-03-01T00:15:00.000-05:00In reference to the lists above: there is no such ...In reference to the lists above: there is no such country as 'Chinese Taipei.' The country under discussion is <I>Taiwan</I>. Its capital city is Taipei.<BR/><BR/>'Chinese Taipei' is one of those fictitious names China uses its political clout to force on Taiwan in international arenas (Olympics, WTO, etc.) The intent is to deny Taiwan--a technologically advanced, self-governing democratic society with a standard of living far above China's--its own identity on the international stage. Why? In a nutshell: it annoys China's leaders terribly to see Taiwan minding its own business without their permission. It always has.<BR/><BR/>For the purposes of this blog 'Chinese Taipei' is just another example of propaganda and myth taking the place of accuracy and sound education. Just call Taiwan Taiwan.<BR/><BR/>And yes, Taiwan's public education system is one of the most distinguished in the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-87411446663445605682009-02-28T23:57:00.000-05:002009-02-28T23:57:00.000-05:00No surprises here. Higher education in America enj...No surprises here. Higher education in America enjoys an excellent reputation. People all over the world want to attend American universities. They represent one of your most important national assets. Their appeal is a driving factor behind the international 'brain drain' that has worked in America's favour for decades.<BR/><BR/>K-12 education is another story. The structure for American K-12 education exists separately from the university system and it shows. No one in the world wants to emulate that. When stories like the Dover School Board make global headlines (and they do), people around the world are bewildered and amused that things like that can happen the land of personal computers and moon landings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-69133167414889084292009-02-18T04:13:00.000-05:002009-02-18T04:13:00.000-05:00as a society we're willing to spend money for basi...<I>as a society we're willing to spend money for basic science and have been doing that for years.</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps in absolute money, due to the size of the US.<BR/><BR/>Actually, in outlay per person or in outlay per GDP (If GDP it is, the wealth of the country), the US does not come first. Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland are the relative top, both in outlay and science performance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-54738613407764462702009-02-18T01:20:00.000-05:002009-02-18T01:20:00.000-05:00Well 10th isn't bad, there's plenty of countries. ...Well 10th isn't bad, there's plenty of countries. I'm not surprised Australia is where it is.<BR/><BR/>Just becuase you think you're 'the best' doesn't mean you are, nor does it really relate to your productive output or lifestyle anyway. A stable social system, and an overly competitive culture are bigger factors.<BR/><BR/>And anyone who has gone beyond highschool realises it is pretty worthless, and for many of those who don't, it's pretty worthless as well. Intellectual and worldly curiosity count for a lot more than rote learning or high test scores when you were 15.NotZedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09469760565180198154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71467870941823936102009-02-17T17:08:00.000-05:002009-02-17T17:08:00.000-05:00TIMSS 2007 International Science Report, listing o...TIMSS 2007 International Science Report, listing only those above "TIMMS scale average":<BR/><BR/><B>8th grade</B><BR/>Singapore 567<BR/>Chinese Taipei 561<BR/>Massachusetts, US 556<BR/>Japan 554<BR/>Korea, Rep. of 553<BR/>England 542<BR/>Hungary 539<BR/>Minnesota, US 539<BR/>Czech Republic 539<BR/>Slovenia 538<BR/>Hong Kong SAR 530<BR/>Russian Federation 530<BR/>British Columbia, Canada 526<BR/>Ontario, Canada 526<BR/>United States 520<BR/>Lithuania 519<BR/>Australia 515<BR/>Sweden 511<BR/>Quebec, Canada 507<BR/><BR/><B>4th grade</B><BR/>Singapore 587<BR/>Massachusetts, US 571<BR/>Chinese Taipei 557<BR/>Hong Kong SAR 554<BR/>Minnesota, US 551<BR/>Japan 548<BR/>Russian Federation 546<BR/>Latvia 542<BR/>Alberta, Canada 543<BR/>England 542<BR/>United States 539<BR/>British Columbia, Canada 537<BR/>Hungary 536<BR/>Ontario, Canada 536<BR/>Italy 535<BR/>Kazakhstan 533<BR/>Germany 528<BR/>Australia 527<BR/>Slovak Republic 526<BR/>Austria 526<BR/>Sweden 525<BR/>Netherlands 523<BR/>Slovenia 518<BR/>Denmark 517<BR/>Quebec, Canada 517<BR/>Czech Republic 515<BR/>Lithuania 514<BR/>New Zealand 504<BR/>Scotland 500<BR/><BR/>Now the same thing for TIMMS 2007 International Math: <BR/><BR/><B>8th grade</B><BR/>Chinese Taipei 598<BR/>Korea, Rep. of 597<BR/>Singapore 593<BR/>Hong Kong SAR 572<BR/>Japan 570<BR/>Massachusetts, US 547<BR/>Minnesota, US 532<BR/>Quebec, Canada 528<BR/>Hungary 517<BR/>Ontario, Canada 517<BR/>England 513<BR/>Russian Federation 512<BR/>British Columbia, Canada 509<BR/>United States 508<BR/>Lithuania 506<BR/>Czech Republic 504<BR/>Slovenia 501<BR/><BR/><B>4th grade</B><BR/>Hong Kong SAR 607<BR/>Singapore 599<BR/>Chinese Taipei 576<BR/>Massachusetts, US 572<BR/>Japan 568<BR/>Minnesota, US 554<BR/>Kazakhstan 549<BR/>Russian Federation 544<BR/>England 541<BR/>Latvia 537 (2.3)<BR/>Netherlands 535<BR/>Lithuania 530<BR/>United States 529<BR/>Germany 525<BR/>Denmark 523<BR/>Quebec, Canada 519<BR/>Australia 516<BR/>Ontario, Canada 512<BR/>Hungary 510<BR/>Italy 507<BR/>Alberta, Canada 505<BR/>Austria 505<BR/>British Columbia, Canada 505<BR/>Sweden 503<BR/>Slovenia 502<BR/><BR/>So, roughly, 10th place, trailing East Asian countries, few Soviet block countries and few Western countries. MA is far ahead of the USA average.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-60970620735306054522009-02-17T15:34:00.000-05:002009-02-17T15:34:00.000-05:00This is a two edged sword. Someone who has had "b...This is a two edged sword. Someone who has had "bio for poets" or "astronomy for poets" sometimes leave those courses thinking that they know more than they really do.Harriethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17953435368705942387noreply@blogger.com