tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post7596505389532124886..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Basic Concepts: The Central Dogma of Molecular BiologyLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-16427486464198286552014-06-24T09:47:17.119-04:002014-06-24T09:47:17.119-04:00http://universe-life.com/2011/09/30/earthlife-gene...http://universe-life.com/2011/09/30/earthlife-genesis-from-aromaticityh-bonding/ Dov Henishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06487907863785174174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-13253124251330220642014-06-24T06:26:30.676-04:002014-06-24T06:26:30.676-04:00I'm sorry that you didn't understand some ...I'm sorry that you didn't understand some basic concepts in the field even after working on them for twenty years. You are not alone, there are many other people like you who are confused about noncoding DNA, evolution, and the fact that most of our genome is junk.<br /><br />The good news is that it's not too late to learn! In order to prevent this sort of thing from happening again, we need to make sure that the current crop of students is taught correctly.Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-4019527023679308092014-06-23T15:30:38.249-04:002014-06-23T15:30:38.249-04:00Oh man. I have been a molecular biologist for almo...Oh man. I have been a molecular biologist for almost 2 decades and I believe that the central dogma is becoming too confusing to follow. Checkout my thoughts <a href="http://www.europeanbiotechnologist.com/blog/is-central-dogma-dead/" rel="nofollow">Is Central Dogma Dead?</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-67310975765574437482013-12-16T20:38:12.689-05:002013-12-16T20:38:12.689-05:00Genetic engineering is part of nature. Transfer of...Genetic engineering is part of nature. Transfer of information from protein to protein can be lossless - not that the dogma bothers to specify lossless transfer.<br /><br />The central dogma says information transfer is impossible - that it never happens. To quote:<br /><br />"It states that such information cannot be transferred from protein to either protein or nucleic acid."<br /><br />It *isn't* impossible. It *does* happen. Q.E.D.: the central dogma is toast.<br />Tim Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06623536372084468307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-13483893378494620862013-12-15T11:57:59.288-05:002013-12-15T11:57:59.288-05:00Seriously? The Central Dogma is violated because w...Seriously? The Central Dogma is violated because <i>we</i> can work out and synthesise a nucleic acid sequence starting from a protein sequence? AllanMillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05955231828424156641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-67955998187989441982013-12-15T11:47:30.016-05:002013-12-15T11:47:30.016-05:00That's a bit different from it happening in na...That's a bit different from it happening in nature. Also, how could the original nucleotide sequence possibly be recovered, given the redundancy in coding for amino acids? There would necessarily have to be a loss of information.Matt Talaricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16209609544520081517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-24812020848024791682013-12-15T07:42:29.019-05:002013-12-15T07:42:29.019-05:00Prions don't violate the central dogma - since...Prions don't violate the central dogma - since no sequence information is properly transferred between the proteins involved.<br />Tim Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06623536372084468307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-40325100084456531132013-12-14T21:42:21.932-05:002013-12-14T21:42:21.932-05:00Er, the central dogma is toast. Sequence informati...Er, the central dogma is toast. Sequence information can and does go back into the genome - in genetic engineering. You can reverse engineer protein residues (e.g. from Dinosaurs) and synthesize them - to see if they really do taste like chicken. Here is James Gardner (1999) on the topic:<br /><br />"to a degree that is largely unappreciated by orthodox theoretical biologists, the ongoing revolution in biotechnology renders the central dogma obsolete. The fact is that information can and does flow upstream into the genome"<br />Tim Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06623536372084468307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-24010094422575104442013-06-02T07:47:37.992-04:002013-06-02T07:47:37.992-04:00What's the problem with prions. I don't se...What's the problem with prions. I don't see any transfer of sequential information, do you?Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-65264921007597847522013-06-02T03:14:57.445-04:002013-06-02T03:14:57.445-04:00I echo Bill's query above: Do prions altering...I echo Bill's query above: Do prions altering the conformation of their 'normal' stablemates subvert the Central Dogma?<br /><br />Larry, thanks for this blog and the links you've included. I've learned a lot.CrocodileChuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10762442097044797842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-65152685065421180742012-09-16T12:23:12.333-04:002012-09-16T12:23:12.333-04:00Thanks for the disambiguation!Thanks for the disambiguation!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-64507405387918075962012-09-10T06:08:04.414-04:002012-09-10T06:08:04.414-04:00Great post, thank you. I'd never even heard of...Great post, thank you. I'd never even heard of Crick's version before - every source I'd encountered simply gave the DNA->RNA->Protein version as the "Central Dogma", usually accrediting it to Crick along the way. I thought it continued to be used as it is still broadly correct - yes there is RNA->DNA flow but it's a smaller part of the picture.Jack Aidleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-49228980818988072042011-10-09T15:28:42.541-04:002011-10-09T15:28:42.541-04:00Tshilongamulenzhe HUMBULANI RONALD
Thank you very...Tshilongamulenzhe HUMBULANI RONALD<br /><br />Thank you very much for elucidating the defination of Central Dogma because it was indeed confusing because different literature comes with their own defination.The reason protein cannot be converted back to RNA is because of rendundacy since one codon can code for two to three different amono acids.This makes it impossible for protein to be converted to RNATshilongamulenzhe Humbulani Ronaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10644038199496892364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-73536324283328631882011-06-15T14:49:34.513-04:002011-06-15T14:49:34.513-04:00Dr. Moran said:
"Alternative splicing and RNA...Dr. Moran said:<br />"Alternative splicing and RNA editing are processes that occur <b>before</b> information passes from nucleic acid to protein. "<br /><br />I keep hearing about splicing regulatory networks from grad student friends studying splicing, and I believe that the existence of specific splicing factor isoforms regulating specific splicing/editing events has been found. This demonstrates the flow of information from nucleic acid to protein, and back to nucleic acid. Thus I think this would contradict the "correct" statement of the central dogma. Just my two cents.Lounoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-600904615558898182010-11-30T01:57:47.915-05:002010-11-30T01:57:47.915-05:00Dispel Some Figments Of Present Science Imaginatio...Dispel Some Figments Of Present Science Imagination<br /><br /><br />"Galaxies pin down dark energy"<br />http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/44468<br /><br /><br />- Dark energy and matter YOK. Per E=Total[m(1 + D)] all the energy and matter of the universe are accounted for.<br /><br />- Higgs Particle YOK. Mass begins to form at some value of the above D.<br /><br />- Sleep is inherent for life via the RNAs, the primal Earth ORGANISMS formed and active only under direct sunlight in pre-metabolism genesis era.<br /><br />- Natural selection is ubiquitous for ALL Mass Formats. It derives from the expansion of the universe.<br /><br />- Epigenetics: Where Life Meets the Genome<br />http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_66997.asp?dinfo=rWfnKzZO4tkhJf38jsJ5EeJo<br /><br />Epigenetics = <br />a) the study of heritable changes in gene function that do not involve changes in DNA sequence<br />b) the science of enduring changes in the pattern of gene activity, during embryo development and beyond, that do not involve alteration of the DNA sequence.<br /><br />The "heritable or enduring changes" are epiDNAtics, not epigenetics. Alternative splicing is not epigenetics, even if/when not involving alteration of the DNA sequence. Earth life is an RNA world.<br /><br />It's the RNAs that evolve proteins. AND IT'S THE RNAs THAT HAVE EVOLVED AND PRODUCE AND EMPLOY THE DNA templates to carry out life processes, for enhancing Earth's biosphere, for enhancing and constraining as long as possible some energy, some of the total energy of the universe, all of which is destined to fuel the ongoing cosmic expansion. <br /><br />IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND IT STILL IS AN RNA EARTH LIFE.<br /><br />Science should adjust its vision, comprehension and concepts. <br /><br /> <br />Dov Henis <br />(Comments From The 22nd Century) <br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/user/profile/1655.page<br /><br />Seed of Human-Chimp Genomes Diversity<br />http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU/blog/articles/53079 <br />03.2010 Updated Life Manifest <br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/54.page#5065 <br />Cosmic Evolution Simplified <br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/240/122.page#4427 <br />Gravity Is The Monotheism Of The Cosmos <br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/260/122.page#4887 <br />Evolution, Natural Selection, Derive From Cosmic Expansion<br />http://darwiniana.com/2010/09/05/the-question-reductionists-fear/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-46704166588657301002010-11-15T02:58:15.649-05:002010-11-15T02:58:15.649-05:00Unravel, Reorganize RNA And DNA Mantras/Dogmas
&...Unravel, Reorganize RNA And DNA Mantras/Dogmas<br /><br /><br />"Central dogma of genetics maybe not so central"<br />"In thousands of genes, RNA frequently fails to accurately transcribe DNA."<br />http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/65063/title/Central_dogma_of_genetics_maybe_not_so_central<br /><br /><br />Probing Human Genetic Diversity<br /><br />"1000 Genomes pilot a hit with geneticists"<br />The first stage of a project to probe human genetic diversity has found millions of new variations.<br />http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/64761/title/1000_Genomes_pilot_a_hit_with_geneticists<br /><br />For probing human DNA genetic diversity bear in mind that:<br /><br />"PERO SE MOVERA <br />EARTH LIFE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND STILL IS AN RNA WORLD"<br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/320/122.page#6472<br /><br />A. Enzymes Exposed <br />Clearer views of the cell’s movers and shakers threaten a century-old mainstay of biology <br />http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/60716/title/Enzymes_Exposed <br /><br />B. EHRC <br />http://origins.swau.edu/q_and_a/life/questions/q3.html <br /><br />C. It's not the protein that makes the enzyme. It's the RNA that has evolved the protein. AND IT'S THE RNAs THAT HAVE EVOLVED AND PRODUCE AND EMPLOY THE DNA templates to carry out life processes, for enhancing Earth's biosphere, for enhancing and constraining as long as possible some energy, some of the total energy of the universe, all of which destined to fuel the ongoing cosmic expansion. <br /><br />Science should adjust its vision, comprehension and conception. <br /><br />IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND IT STILL IS AN RNA EARTH LIFE. <br /><br /><br />Dov Henis <br />(Comments From The 22nd Century) <br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/user/profile/1655.page<br /><br />Seed of Human-Chimp Genomes Diversity<br />http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU/blog/articles/53079 <br />03.2010 Updated Life Manifest <br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/54.page#5065 <br />Cosmic Evolution Simplified <br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/240/122.page#4427 <br />Gravity Is The Monotheism Of The Cosmos <br />http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/260/122.page#4887 <br />Evolution, Natural Selection, Derive From Cosmic Expansion<br />http://darwiniana.com/2010/09/05/the-question-reductionists-fear/Dov Henishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06487907863785174174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-44492232513267383232010-02-08T12:51:29.300-05:002010-02-08T12:51:29.300-05:00If the protein hypothesis for prions is correct, w...If the protein hypothesis for prions is correct, would that modify Crick's CD? Since they transfer information by folding, not sequence?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704810560064858160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-18931936802251449922008-09-17T12:38:00.000-04:002008-09-17T12:38:00.000-04:00Hi, you all!I believe that what Anonymous wanted t...Hi, you all!<BR/><BR/>I believe that what Anonymous wanted to say is that a protein can regulate the final outcome of an mRNA.<BR/>So what I guess he thought is that a protein could indeed modulate the "precise determination of sequence, either of bases in the nucleic acid or of amino acid residues in the protein. " as stated in the dogma. <BR/>So, the info could indeed come from a protein, regulating another mRNA. <BR/><BR/>They do occur before a protein is generated, but once it is generated, those proteins could determine information, by altering the final outcome of another mRNA molecule by regulating its splicing or editing. <BR/><BR/>I hope Anonymous confirms this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-45705496947704221812008-09-17T12:28:00.000-04:002008-09-17T12:28:00.000-04:00Yes, they occur before.. but they determine if the...Yes, they occur before.. but they determine if the outcome will be A or B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-84003072169886190972008-09-09T17:16:00.000-04:002008-09-09T17:16:00.000-04:00anonymous asks,and what about rna editing?Alternat...anonymous asks,<BR/><BR/><I>and what about rna editing?</I><BR/><BR/>Alternative splicing and RNA editing are processes that occur <B>before</B> information passes from nucleic acid to protein. <BR/><BR/>They do not contradict the correct definition of the Central Dogma of Molecular Biology.Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-42168902761480168112008-09-09T15:44:00.000-04:002008-09-09T15:44:00.000-04:00and what about rna editing?In this case proteins i...and what about rna editing?<BR/>In this case proteins indeed alter the sequence of a "nucleic acid".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-61702222339260220912008-09-09T15:22:00.000-04:002008-09-09T15:22:00.000-04:00"This states that once ‘information’ has passed in..."This states that once ‘information’ has passed into protein it cannot get out again. In more detail, the transfer of information from nucleic acid to nucleic acid, or from nucleic acid to protein may be possible, but transfer from protein to protein, or from protein to nucleic acid is impossible. Information means here the precise determination of sequence, either of bases in the nucleic acid or of amino acid residues in the protein. (Crick 1958, 152-153, emphasis in original)"<BR/><BR/><BR/>Doesn't alternative splicing contradicts this? (as it was suggested in a previous post?)<BR/><BR/>Regarding the definition used for "information" .....<BR/><BR/>Proteins can indeed modulate the "precise determination of sequence, either of bases in the nucleic acid or of amino acid residues in the protein. ", by altering the final sequence in an mature mRNA molecule derived from a specific locus and the specific amino acids that will then be incorporated in the protein, when compared to the other alternatively spliced form (in the specific cases where this happens).<BR/><BR/>They can even (in some cases) regulate their own splicing (and mature mRNA sequence).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-45990466256334978412007-01-30T01:37:00.000-05:002007-01-30T01:37:00.000-05:00It is precisely because of ambiguities in Biologis...It is precisely because of ambiguities in Biologists' use of the word "information" that I have done and published considerable research. My Doctoral research 1973-1977 at U.Mass./Amherst spun off several refereed Mathematical Biology papers on equations governing information flow in metabolic systems. A current draft paper is on a model of the Shannon channel capacity of evolution by natural selection. <br /><br />See this in wiki at:<br />http://necsi.org/community/wiki/index.php?title=Evolutionary_channel_capacity&redirect=no<br /><br />Traditionally, the problem was that Biologists didn't know Information Theory, and vice versa. But that was decades ago. The problem now is in fitting the explosion of genomic, proteomic, transcriptomic, metabolomic, lipidomic, and chronomic data to mathematical models, and trying to explain it all to students, colleagues, granting agencies, and the press.<br /><br />-- Prof. Jonathan Vos PostAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-34478708595549860262007-01-20T09:57:00.000-05:002007-01-20T09:57:00.000-05:00I've been pestering molecular biologists for years...I've been pestering molecular biologists for years about this very point, and arguing that scientists who aren't taught the history of their discipline are only half educated.<br /><br />And, to the extent that intellectual role models are important, scientists couldn't do better than to emulate Crick. For example, he was very clear about how he was using the term 'information,' and tying it to a particular problematic -- what he called the problem of 'sequentialization.' This is a far cry from the vague appeals to 'biological information' one encounters at every turn today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-21217267538772829272007-01-19T12:45:00.000-05:002007-01-19T12:45:00.000-05:00p.s. Forgot to mention that the discovery of alter...p.s. Forgot to mention that the discovery of alternative splicing prompted Barry Commoner to declare the Death of the Central Dogma in an article in <i>Harper's</i> about 5 years ago...he also opined (as I recall) that genetic engineering was a waste of time, in part because we could never understand the complexity of expression-regulatory networks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com