tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post6272018135795280872..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: The mystery of Maud MentenLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-8040976406762897182015-09-14T19:14:47.174-04:002015-09-14T19:14:47.174-04:00Naomi's sons included two or three zoologists,...Naomi's sons included two or three zoologists, and a grandson is a present-day computational biologist, and a good one. JBS Haldane is now the most famous Haldane, at least to reader here. But in his day he was overshadowed by his father, who is the guy who figured out "the bends", an immensely important piece of work. And even more so by his uncle, Richard Haldane, a major politician or Edwardian times, and a cabinet minister in Liberal governments. Supposedly the notorious British 11+ exams came from an educational reform that Richard made. When JBS entered the army in WWI, his uncle had recently been Minister of War.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-7077982730499417612015-09-14T09:11:13.897-04:002015-09-14T09:11:13.897-04:00A lot of ambitious self-promoting graduate student...<i>A lot of ambitious self-promoting graduate students, postdocs, and young researchers had heard of Kuhn's book "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".</i><br /><br />Almost a year is a very long time to wait to answer your comment, but a year ago I hadn't read Kuhn's book (though it was sitting unread on my shelves for about ten years), but now I have. I found it a struggle to get through, and find it astonishing that a book with so little to say achieved such fame. He tells us what the conclusions are going to be right at the beginning and then repeats them endlessly, and mentions biology only as an afterthought, near the end.A reviewer at Amazon said that he used the word "paradigm(s)" 677 times during the course of the book, and although my first thought was that that was an exaggeration it's possibly true. What emerges from the book is someone deeply in love with his own ideas.Athel Cornish-Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993242236208061356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-53509131265194571712014-09-18T17:47:36.446-04:002014-09-18T17:47:36.446-04:00There was a big wave of paradigmitis in evolutiona...There was a big wave of paradigmitis in evolutionary biology in about 1980. A lot of ambitious self-promoting graduate students, postdocs, and young researchers had heard of Kuhn's book <em>The Structure of Scientific Revolutions</em>. They concluded that really innovative people invented new paradigms, while only dullards did "normal science". So everyone started describing their results as founding a new paradigm. A lot of us had to spend a lot of our time killing off these new paradigms, mostly by showing that they were either wrong, or equivalent to older views.<br /><br />I used to joke that I would become famous by being the only person of my generation to do "normal science".<br /><br />John Maynard Smith used to happily declare that he was an orthodox adherent of the Modern Synthesis. That was profoundly liberating for many of us, as there were so many self-promoters around loudly calling the Modern Synthesis outdated. It is one of the ways he showed real leadership.<br /><br />Much of this wave of paradigmitis subsided by about 1990.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-84278927422680542702014-09-18T16:20:34.300-04:002014-09-18T16:20:34.300-04:00Everybody is in agreement that the paradigm paradi...Everybody is in agreement that the paradigm paradigm ought to be overturned.SRMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299706694667706149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-74059674882701378952014-09-18T15:43:37.579-04:002014-09-18T15:43:37.579-04:00You can also call any common opinion you have just...You can also call any common opinion you have just shown to be false a "paradigm", as in <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16815955" rel="nofollow">this example</a>:<br /><br /><i>We overturn the paradigm of cytosolic K+ pool-size homeostasis...</i><br /><br />Why, there are scientists who have sometimes overturned six paradigms before breakfast!<br />Piotr GÄ…siorowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06339278493073512102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-51850055628953714292014-09-18T10:29:00.438-04:002014-09-18T10:29:00.438-04:00Interesting about use (and non-use) of language re...Interesting about use (and non-use) of language re "paradigm." Makes me wonder whether the Central Dogma would have been "overturned" so often if it had been called something else. After all, people don't like dogmatism, so seeing a dogma overturned has to be positive, doesn't it?judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-3555066200682450562014-09-18T08:56:38.234-04:002014-09-18T08:56:38.234-04:00Good point. It's pretty unusual to hear scient...Good point. It's pretty unusual to hear scientists talk about the current paradigms that they support. I guess it's only when you want to overthrow one of them that you put it into your papers. <br /><br />Personally, whenever I read a paper that claims to be overthrowing a paradigm it turns out to be a pretty good indication of bad science. Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-52420605221369716722014-09-18T08:16:49.345-04:002014-09-18T08:16:49.345-04:00Do real scientists talk much at all about paradigm...Do real scientists talk much at all about paradigms? I think one could go through a year without hearing the word uttered by someone who wasn't a journalist, popular science writer or a philosopher.Athel Cornish-Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993242236208061356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-35658618585752406022014-09-18T06:15:11.974-04:002014-09-18T06:15:11.974-04:00I read a lot of articles and books by science writ...I read a lot of articles and books by science writers. According to them, paradigms are overturned just about every week. Sometimes it's the same paradigm that gets overturned every year or so. The Central Dogma, for example, has been overturned 44 times since 1980.Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-60716291702914552922014-09-18T04:05:56.778-04:002014-09-18T04:05:56.778-04:00Joe Felsenstein said:
If you don't do that, st...Joe Felsenstein said:<br /><i>If you don't do that, students will get the impression that there was no work of interest before 1995</i><br />I find that this boundary is often at 2000, when the human genome was published. I have seen this period described as one of "rampant paradigm shifts" and some students even believe that concepts such as polygenic inheritance and the existence of junk DNA* were only appreciated after this feat. Honestly, I can't think of a single paradigm that was overturned because of whole genome sequencing.<br /><br />*written as "junk" DNA, because it is not really junk of courseCorneelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02884855837357720225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-48224541168075018112014-09-17T11:20:59.622-04:002014-09-17T11:20:59.622-04:00I don't think Motoo Kimura ever got mad at me:...I don't think Motoo Kimura ever got mad at me: if he did he kept it to himself, and once sent me a very friendly letter. On the other hand Max Perutz got sufficiently mad at me at a meeting of the Biochemical Society to ask for additional time so that he could answer the scurrilous points he thought I had made. Athel Cornish-Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993242236208061356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-41497458420790984492014-09-14T10:27:39.985-04:002014-09-14T10:27:39.985-04:00Woops, make that Friedrich Miescher.Woops, make that Friedrich Miescher.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-67665396245726032762014-09-14T09:59:25.391-04:002014-09-14T09:59:25.391-04:00Apparently The Haldane-Sprunt-Mitchison paper was ...Apparently The Haldane-Sprunt-Mitchison paper was the first demonstration of linkage and recombination in a mammal. So pretty important.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-85527003701833339692014-09-14T09:56:13.927-04:002014-09-14T09:56:13.927-04:00,,, which is often confused with the discovery of ...,,, which is often confused with the discovery of DNA (Ferdinand Miescher, 1869; Kossel, 1878). <br /><br />I am having more and more fun watching students' faces when I talk about historical figures in my field who I met (got to see JBS Haldane lecture and talk with other, many contacts with Sewall Wright, Motoo Kimura got mad at me). They are astonished that a living person could have seen or known these people. Perhaps they think that was back in the Middle Ages.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71753915144068364122014-09-14T07:57:36.414-04:002014-09-14T07:57:36.414-04:001995 is about when most of my students were born. ...1995 is about when most of my students were born. As far as they are concerned, that's when the world began. Most of my students don't believe me when I tell them that I've had an email address since 1982 and that Watson and Crick worked out the structure of DNA before their parents were born. Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-82242499402060140232014-09-13T10:26:38.749-04:002014-09-13T10:26:38.749-04:00I bought Mitchison's wartime diary 'Among ...I bought Mitchison's wartime diary 'Among You Taking Notes' on a whim while an undergraduate, unaware initially that the 'Jack' frequently referred to was JBS. AllanMillerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05955231828424156641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-70468601300046875002014-09-13T10:17:03.018-04:002014-09-13T10:17:03.018-04:00I like to work some history in when I lecture, and...I like to work some history in when I lecture, and usually get comments saying that the students appreciated that, but that I did spend too much time on it. If you don't do that, students will get the impression that there was no work of interest before 1995, which is about when the electronic copies of journals start.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-58726835150609630632014-09-12T23:51:10.953-04:002014-09-12T23:51:10.953-04:00Not that is anything to do with Dr Menten, but Wat...Not that is anything to do with Dr Menten, but Watson's book "The Double Helix" is dedicated to Naomi Mitchison, and the annotated edition contains a photograph of Mitchison and Lucky Jim. Peter Nigoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00240454577551517757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-41152324325118555292014-09-12T15:25:17.073-04:002014-09-12T15:25:17.073-04:00And I should mention that the most famous Haldane ...And I should mention that the most famous Haldane in the past was Richard Haldane (Viscount Haldane), JBS's uncle, who was Secretary of State for War, and later Lord Chancellor. He helped found both the London School of Economics and Imperial College.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-26078197425503252332014-09-12T15:18:55.980-04:002014-09-12T15:18:55.980-04:00She also had three sons who became biologists (one...She also had three sons who became biologists (one a bacteriologist, one an immunologist, and one a cell biologist), and one grandson, Graeme Mitchison, who has done much work in bioinformatics and is now working on information in quantum computation.Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-88226008746284543582014-09-12T12:21:19.984-04:002014-09-12T12:21:19.984-04:00I suppose you're right. I remember being surpr...I suppose you're right. I remember being surprised in reading a collection of George Orwell's essays and reading his arguments against J.B.S Haldane and J.D. Bernal, both of whom I had only heard of in a scientific context. It turns out that while Orwell, Haldane, and Bernal were all socialists, Orwell was a supporter of Trotsky and Haldane and Bernal were Stalinists (at the time).Jonathan Badgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04921990886076027719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-99187556689206612014-09-12T11:50:26.489-04:002014-09-12T11:50:26.489-04:00BTW, only a few students were aware of any connect...<i>BTW, only a few students were aware of any connection between Maud Menten and the University of Toronto. That's in spite of the fact that her bust is in the lobby of my building and there's a big blue plaque outside the main entrance.</i><br /><br />I'm not sure most modern students care about that sort of thing (probably we were the same but have forgotten). In 1977 I spent three months teaching a gradiuate course on this stuff at Guelph. When I first referred to Michaelis and Menten I said that Maud Menten was one of the first women and one of the first Canadians to become an everyday name in biochemistry. None of the students seemed the least bit interested to know this. Both of the profesors auditing the course told me afterwards that they hadn't known either of these things, that they both found them interesting to know, and that they agreed with my estimate of the level of student interest: "Why is he wasting time telling us stuff that's not likely to feature in the exam?" All or nearly all of the students were Canadian, and more than half were women.Athel Cornish-Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993242236208061356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-46203362258439507782014-09-12T10:50:06.269-04:002014-09-12T10:50:06.269-04:00My students are about to construct progress curves...My students are about to construct progress curves (for trypsin) in the lab course I'm teaching. I performed a simple demonstration of me as an enzyme by taking apart Lego blocks. When I plotted my actions over time it yielded a straight line that plateaued when all of the blocks were apart.<br /><br />Then I reminded them what a real enzyme progress curve looks like and asked them why it was different. They studied enzyme kinetics last year but none of them (43 students) were able to explain the shape of the progress curve!<br /><br />I had to teach them why initial velocity is so important and why it was such a valuable insight. <br /><br />BTW, only a few students were aware of any connection between Maud Menten and the University of Toronto. That's in spite of the fact that her bust is in the lobby of my building and there's a big blue plaque outside the main entrance. Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-86174663107947005382014-09-12T10:25:18.750-04:002014-09-12T10:25:18.750-04:00Well yes, but outside the rarefied world in which ...Well yes, but outside the rarefied world in which those of us who follow this blog live, Naomi Mitchison is probably a lot more famous than JBS Haldane. Both of them are of course very well known to political activists in the UK (if they're old enough).<br /><br />(Curiously, the Reply button seems to work on my rather old desk-top computer, but not on my much newer portable that I use at home.)Athel Cornish-Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993242236208061356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-46490090101568457012014-09-12T10:06:32.804-04:002014-09-12T10:06:32.804-04:00Yes. The Haldane family was much like the Darwin-W...Yes. The Haldane family was much like the Darwin-Wedgwood family in the sense that one extremely distinguished individual overshadowed the fame of other distinguished members who probably would have been better known if they had been in other families.Jonathan Badgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04921990886076027719noreply@blogger.com