tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post5278589406048367923..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: A creationist argument against the evolution of new enzymesLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger121125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-35633958899573376482014-12-27T19:21:11.063-05:002014-12-27T19:21:11.063-05:00@Qest
Stop bluffing about your ID creation evide...@Qest <br /><br />Stop bluffing about your ID creation evidence in QM. Give us some links to papers that prove ID rather than your own wand-magical creation. Last time I check there were 0 -zero articles on the theme. I guess you got some inside scoop. Indulge me!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-87989025057939245562014-12-26T17:20:11.337-05:002014-12-26T17:20:11.337-05:00Barbara,
Know anything about Quantum Mechanics.....Barbara, <br /><br />Know anything about Quantum Mechanics...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-74345621864631799612014-12-26T17:11:10.065-05:002014-12-26T17:11:10.065-05:00Barbara,
Are you the RNA World believer...?Barbara, <br /><br />Are you the RNA World believer...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-36376952229377458432014-12-26T17:09:29.309-05:002014-12-26T17:09:29.309-05:00You're going to copy me now...?You're going to copy me now...?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-35861139936747938102014-12-26T16:54:16.381-05:002014-12-26T16:54:16.381-05:00Topgoose, I thought of you this morning while read...Topgoose, I thought of you this morning while reading about a new species of tetraploid, parthenogenic Whiptail Lizard produced in the lab and now named Aspidoscelis neavesi. See http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3099/MCZ17.1. <br /><br />Interestingly, it was produced as a test of a hypothesis about the origin of a wild, unnamed tetraploid specimen of Whiptail collected years before, which would presumably be treated as a member of this same species. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-55393762279672928912014-12-26T14:54:04.048-05:002014-12-26T14:54:04.048-05:00Here is some clues in the video at 40 min mark...
...Here is some clues in the video at 40 min mark...<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtYfz72MmtMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-18480988059936964722014-12-26T14:47:16.810-05:002014-12-26T14:47:16.810-05:00Rum wrote,
"It's not? They were magicall...Rum wrote,<br /><br />"It's not? They were magically poofed into existence then?"<br /><br />Quantum mechanics i.e. quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation theory shed some light how creation could have happened...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-45024152069897265822014-12-18T21:45:10.770-05:002014-12-18T21:45:10.770-05:00OK, how about physical fitness? :-)
What would A...OK, how about physical fitness? :-)<br /><br />What would Aleksandr Karelin's heart rate look like after the sprint intervals that Usain Bolt tosses off before breakfast? How would Bolt feel if he tried to do Karelin's weight training? Do either of them stand to live as long as Tiger Woods?<br /><br />In other words, physical fitness for *what*?<br /><br />Let's relate this back to "intelligence." My car mechanic has never failed in 26 years to fix everything correctly the first time. I have seen him look at a 3-page-foldout wiring diagram that was complete spaghetti to me and identify the exact location of an electrical problem in a couple of seconds.<br /><br />Of course if you sit him down in front of a reading comprehension test (a timed one, as all "intelligence" tests I've ever taken were timed - why is that?), I've got a very good chance of besting him, as long as the reading comprehension piece doesn't have to do with auto repair. <br /><br />But I think of the section of an actual reading comprehension test from the SAT that appeared in a book called "None of the Above." I aced all four questions. Oh, and - the reading piece that had appeared on the SAT was not reproduced in the book. Just the way the questions were phrased easily told me which answer was correct. So what are these tests measuring? Reading comprehension? Some general intelligence factor? Or how attuned to nuances of the questioners' meaning and predilections we are?<br /><br />OK, enough OT. If you haven't read all the way through the Shalizi piece, I heartily recommend it to you (and everyone else here).judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-27280126237108911632014-12-18T15:47:14.008-05:002014-12-18T15:47:14.008-05:00@ judmarc
Your post caused me pause to ponder:
...@ judmarc<br /><br />Your post caused me pause to ponder:<br /><br /><i> Is there a measurable quality of humans called "athleticism"? </i><br /><br />How about physical fitness? For example, with nary a glance, no one would ever mistake me for an athlete. Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-54363417732770605162014-12-18T14:44:48.780-05:002014-12-18T14:44:48.780-05:00I see your nature-nurture argument, and raise you ...<i> I see your nature-nurture argument, and raise you a compelling argument that no such thing as "intelligence," as measured by IQ tests, actually exists</i><br /><br />Hmmm… I cannot agree.<br /><br />Let’s face it – stupid people exist. We encounter them every day! And… it would appear that our qualitative impression of utter and complete stupidity can indeed correspond to Binet’s statistical model.<br /><br />There is an apocryphal story when some naïf asked Binet for an exact definition of intelligence and Binet apparently answered “Whatever my test measures!<br /><br />I also react strongly against pop psychology that pretends to pass for academic endeavor such as Gardner’s version of Multiple Intelligences inflicted on all education students.<br /><br />That said – of course, there is some prima facie merit to the concept of multiple intelligences, I am not sure any psychologist has managed to identify and quantitate them in any meaningful manner.<br /><br />To quote an eminent statistician, George E. P. Box, who wrote in his book Empirical Model Building and Response Surfaces : <i> “Essentially, all [statistical] models are wrong, but some are useful.” </i><br /><br />http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/2015/1/what-everyone-should-know-about-statistical-correlation<br /><br /><i>Argumendum</i>, <br /><br />Say Binet’s IQ test does correlate to a meaningful measurement; genetic predisposition to lower scores in blacks is NEVER measured even though it is measurable.<br />Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-83986618506427149612014-12-18T14:09:09.452-05:002014-12-18T14:09:09.452-05:00Dino-moron,
Stop referring to me-Quest- and Top-g...Dino-moron,<br /><br />Stop referring to me-Quest- and Top-goof as the same person...!!! You are insulting your own intelligence... or whatever is left of it...LMAO...!!! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-27602265053312515112014-12-18T12:49:15.429-05:002014-12-18T12:49:15.429-05:00I see your nature-nurture argument, and raise you ...I see your nature-nurture argument, and raise you a compelling argument that no such thing as "intelligence," as measured by IQ tests, actually exists: http://vserver1.cscs.lsa.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/523.html<br /><br />Think about it for a minute ('cause that's all it should take): Is there a measurable quality of humans called "athleticism"? Who has more of this singular quality, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Usain Bolt or Aleksandr Karelin? Oh, you say it is nonsensical to try to fit all their diverse talents on the Procrustean bed of a single measure? And do you think human mental capabilities are so much less diverse than our physical ones? So a singular measure makes no sense there either, does it?judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-81152843829872348132014-12-18T10:53:09.905-05:002014-12-18T10:53:09.905-05:00re: "digression"
IMHO - these are issue...re: "digression"<br /><br />IMHO - these are issues that need to be brought up in class!<br /><br />My classes are also directed to the seminal paper published in 1977 (how is that for forgotten ancient history) separating once and for all confounding black/white nature/nurture variables with respect to IQ.<br /><br />http://www.springerlink.com/content/u2177002257m7371/<br /><br /><br />Individuals identified as “black” can have increasing or decreasing admixture of cryptic “white” alleles in their genome without any concomitant effect on IQ.<br /><br />OK OK - alright already... I have no right to hijack this thread.<br /><br />I apologise - In my defense, colnago80 got me going....<br /><br />Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-262027806427862962014-12-18T10:45:43.781-05:002014-12-18T10:45:43.781-05:00re: "Blacks"
Actually that term is use...re: <i> "Blacks"</i><br /><br />Actually that term is used a lot in the Canadian Maritimes... but I don't remember ever hearing that term in the Canadian West.<br /><br />What the hell - am I supposed to be a "White"?!<br /><br />I remember I almost had a car accident in downtown Halifax as I passed by a building with a sign identifying itself as the "The Black Educators Association" of Nova Scotia.<br /><br />I was tempted to park and inquire where the "White Educators Association" was located.<br /><br />I am glad I didn't - the endemic racism in Halifax is so pernicious that I was obliged to become a member of the "The Black Educators Association" <br /><br />... "associate" member actually. Apparently my blonde/blue-eyed phenotype prohibited full membership. How ironic is that!?<br /><br />To the director's credit - he invited me to a executive meeting to make my case for full membership, but I was in the throes of re-locating. I could never raise a family in that part of the world, so I never bothered.<br /><br />but...<br /><br />... we digress.Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-39314365625980283032014-12-18T10:36:42.144-05:002014-12-18T10:36:42.144-05:00Perhaps I should have mentioned I also teach Germa...Perhaps I should have mentioned I also teach German at my school. <br /><br /><b> re: </b> <i> Imagine if an instructor in an American classroom said that Afro-Americans were a hybrid of chimps and humans. </i><br /><br />uhmmm... as a matter of fact, that is exactly the teaching of the Seventh Day Adventist Church according to the teachings of its founder/prophet Ellen White.<br /><br />Mind you - not too long ago, scientists with the highest credentials held similar views and considered negroid races, actually any non-white/nonNordic Eurpopean as not only inferior but even different in species.<br /><br />Speaking of classrooms - I am sure Larry can help me out - but some insane professor (his name escapes me) with tenure in some Ontario university (I forget which) is still attempting to pull out the bell-curve argument that blacks are genetically inferior in intelligence. I remind you that James Watson is desperately attempting to redeem his public reputation for blurting out similar remarks.<br /><br />Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-89562819557959163442014-12-18T09:47:06.230-05:002014-12-18T09:47:06.230-05:00Danke, Larry.
(Yes, that's another joke.)Danke, Larry.<br /><br />(Yes, that's another joke.)judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-41131138126363148242014-12-18T09:37:27.070-05:002014-12-18T09:37:27.070-05:00colnago80 says,
Excuse me, that's a racist co...colnago80 says,<br /><br /><i>Excuse me, that's a racist comment ...</i><br /><br />Get a life.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure Tom's students can recognize a joke when they hear it. Did you think about where a last name like "Mueller" (Müller) comes from?Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-13664816262795794072014-12-18T08:25:28.710-05:002014-12-18T08:25:28.710-05:00Re Tom Mueller
Of course some perplexed and somew...Re Tom Mueller<br /><br /><i>Of course some perplexed and somewhat embarrassed student always raises his hand asking about the possibility of human-chimpanzee hybrids and my response (every year) is<br /></i><br /><i>OF COURSE! WHERE DO YOU THINK GERMANS COME FROM?!</i><br /><br />Excuse me, that's a racist comment that is entirely inappropriate in a classroom. Imagine if an instructor in an American classroom said that Afro-Americans were a hybrid of chimps and humans. That would almost certainly have negative consequences for that instructor's continued employment in an American university.<br /><br />By the way, I am not of German ancestry and have no great affection for Germany or Germans but such "jokes" are entirely inappropriate.colnago80https://www.blogger.com/profile/02640567775340860582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-58662858114554389472014-12-18T08:01:50.235-05:002014-12-18T08:01:50.235-05:00Sorry, you're right. His (deliberate?) lie(s) ...Sorry, you're right. His (deliberate?) lie(s) outside the courtroom was/ were exposed. I'm implying with my writing that he got caught commiting perjury, that was certainly not the case.<br />His butt was indeed handed to him. Big time.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924368353226400878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-6305878345519179672014-12-18T06:55:41.185-05:002014-12-18T06:55:41.185-05:00and in fact got slapped on the wrists for lying
C...<i>and in fact got slapped on the wrists for lying</i><br /><br />Careful, Ed. I don't think so, unless you can show me something in the trial transcript I missed my first couple of times through.<br /><br />He certainly got his butt handed to him on cross examination, though - I think from his point of view, that had to be worse than any admonition for lying would have been.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-72990052758474754992014-12-18T01:45:07.508-05:002014-12-18T01:45:07.508-05:00"Do you even read what you wrote, Topgoose?&q..."Do you even read what you wrote, Topgoose?"<br /><br />No he doesn't. He doesn't define 'kind' specific enough, thus he can slither out of questions he knows he can't answer by 'moving the goalposts'. Or plainly ignoring what ever you write.<br /><br />Diogenes has a nice summary some way up this thread.<br />Top does a Gish gallop, clearly lacks Gish's intelligence though and gets himself caught in his own web of lies. Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924368353226400878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-3097575775413404812014-12-18T01:22:18.391-05:002014-12-18T01:22:18.391-05:00Top asked:
"And how IC is the epiglottis?&quo...Top asked:<br />"And how IC is the epiglottis?"<br /><br />Is the epiglottis the next IC thing? The next cool ID fad? After failing miserably with for example eye, flagellum and blood clotting, the epiglottis is the current IC attempt?<br /><br />Anyway, back to your question:<br />Top asked:<br />"And how IC is the epiglottis?"<br /><br />Do tell, I expect we'll all be swept away with your evidence.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924368353226400878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-7660099885023733652014-12-17T18:52:47.093-05:002014-12-17T18:52:47.093-05:00ROTFLMAO!
Bravo Diogenes! Bis bis…
I introduce ...ROTFLMAO!<br /><br />Bravo Diogenes! Bis bis…<br /><br />I introduce the subject in high school by gently explaining that horses and donkeys are not different in kind [sic] therefore sibling species (for lack of a better term) since hybrids (mules and hinnies) are infertile.<br /><br />I then mention that humans and chimpanzees by any objective criterion are more similar to each other than donkeys are to horses…<br /><br />… wait for it, wait for it…<br /><br />Of course some perplexed and somewhat embarrassed student always raises his hand asking about the possibility of human-chimpanzee hybrids and my response (every year) is <br /><br /><i>OF COURSE! WHERE DO YOU THINK GERMANS COME FROM?!</i><br /><br /> In any case – and we have rehashed this frequently on this blog – human/chimp divergence would by any objective criterion represent micro-evolution and not macroevolution<br /><br />Here are some of my high school exercise sheets that I hope are not too far advanced for IDers. Bottom line: differences between domestic horses, Przewalski' horses and donkeys are no "different in kind" than differences between various hominid lineages and that humans/chimpanzee lineages (as compared to equine phylogeny) would represent the paragon of micro-evolution (whatever that is supposed to mean).<br /><br />http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/ws.extensions.html<br /><br />Parenthetically, participation on this blog has obliged me to revisit my naïve definition of a gene on those worksheets. As always, my gratitude knows no bounds.<br /><br />ITMT - P Z Myers posted a great blog: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/10/23/a-scientific-visualization-of-the-importance-of-race/<br /><br />Genetically, humans appear nothing more than an inbred subset of chimpanzees. <br /><br />I cited PZ M's blog on the AP teachers’ site (accessible to anybody involved in Biology education at the secondary, post-secondary level)<br /><br />https://apcommunity.collegeboard.org/group/apbiology/discussion-boards/-/message_boards/message/48616441<br /><br />Larry and Joe were cited extensively! (thank you thank you thank you thank you…)<br /><br />I have to say though, that even on that polite forum, I finally had to throw in the towel. At some point deliberate obtuseness and intellectual dishonesty makes civil discourse impossible.<br /><br />I apologize for being shamelessly autobiographical in this post - but I do have an ulterior motive - I am hoping to entice some of you to participate on the AP teachers forum first hand so I need no longer play the role of cross-pollinator.Tom Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09829281784362177069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-12191535565231368342014-12-17T17:57:22.106-05:002014-12-17T17:57:22.106-05:00Do you even read what you wrote, Topgoose? You wr...Do you even read what you wrote, Topgoose? You wrote, "Show me how the evolution proces has solved that problem every time after a mass extinction, with the latest, 60 milion years ago. So, 60 millions years ago evolution was able, just like that, to create/repeat all loss information again, just like that."<br /><br />It would seem obvious to me that evolution did not "repeat all loss information". The dinosaurs are gone (except for birds) and mammals (and birds) are the dominant big animals now. The information that was lost is lost. However, the genetic variations that survived went on to reproduce, mutate, speciate, mutate some more, and in 65 million years had time to produce the impressive amount of variation we see today. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-76108681607690336172014-12-17T17:49:02.362-05:002014-12-17T17:49:02.362-05:00Actually, it is inbreeding that causes loss of inf...Actually, it is inbreeding that causes loss of information. Inbreeding = breeding among close relatives. It is definitely breeding within a "kind," however badly you define "kind." Inbreeding caused some of the defects found in purebred dogs. (Other problems are the inevitable side effects of what was bred for, e.g. vulnerability to back problems in low-slung dachshunds.) <br /><br />Crossbreeding, interbreeding, and outbreeding ( all the same thing) retain the same amount of genetic information and may increase the amount of genetic variation within one of the species involved. I mean, if species A and B hybridize and the hybrids breed back (backcross) to B, then some genes from A will pass into the B populations and increase the genetic variation in B as a whole. Sometimes, the mitochondria from A pass into B. <br /><br />Now consider the example speciation by hybridization and polyploidy. Let's say species A is diploid and we can designate its genome as AA. Diploid species B has genome BB. They hybridize. The hybrids have genome AB. If they undergo polyploidy (which in some groups they are prone to), they produce hybrids with genomes AABB and are often reproductively isolated from their diploid parents. Those polyploids may not have all the "A" type variation or all the "B" variation in their parents, but each AABB individual has a lot more information than any AA or BB individual. And since hybridization and polyploidy may happen again in this system, new AABB individuals may form with slightly different variation (seen in some fern complexes) and contribute to the variation in the new species of hybrid origin. <br /><br />So: crossbreeding, interbreeding, hybridization, and speciation don't (necessarily) involve or cause loss of variation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com