tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post5045781010514609898..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: A paradigm shift in the makingLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-8133624891250030352014-10-16T19:30:10.714-04:002014-10-16T19:30:10.714-04:00I that interview, Richard Dawkins was answering a ...I that interview, Richard Dawkins was answering a question where he was asked to speculate how intelligent design could be involved in life on earth. He said a technologically very advanced race could have seeded Earth with life. He said if designed, then life should bear some evidence of it being intelligently designed. Dembski claimed (about 15 years ago) to have developed a mathematical method to detect design in nature. Why doesn't he apply this method to "the detailed molecular biology and biochemistry" of life on Earth and provide an empirical test of design?Chris Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04778164246719803780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-10880247246614576392014-10-16T18:25:05.853-04:002014-10-16T18:25:05.853-04:00When it comes to this problem, I always rely on th...When it comes to this problem, I always rely on the opinion of the most knowledgeable man alive when it comes to detecting design Richard Dawkins.... Unlike some of the morons here, he has no problem detecting design in "the detailed molecular biology and biochemistry"... Maybe you morons should take some courses from RichD on how to do that since you fall behind with the best progress in the field..?<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoncJBrrdQ8Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-18106569307758339142014-10-16T18:00:32.496-04:002014-10-16T18:00:32.496-04:00Steve, you said:
"...there is not only a sig...Steve, you said:<br /><br />"...there is not only a signal of design in nature. There is direct evidence of design in nature."<br /><br />But then, while adding the words "superior", "higher", and "principles" to design, you said:<br /><br />"Its only a matter of time before we discover those higher design principles..."<br /><br />And:<br /><br />"...when those superior design principles that nature obviously possesses are finally detected..."<br /><br />So, you're claiming that there's direct evidence of design and superior design principles in (and by) nature but you're also claiming that design and higher/superior design principles have not been detected, yet you're also apparently giving credit to "Dembski, Behe, Marks, Wells, Denton, etc." for already detecting design and higher/superior design principles in (and by) nature. Make up your feeble mind.<br /><br />And by the way, you're claiming that design and higher/superior design principles in, of, and by nature were/are designed, created, and constantly controlled by the biblical characters yhwh-isho-holy-ghost, right? The whole truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07219999357041824471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-89443606556158532402014-10-16T17:59:20.695-04:002014-10-16T17:59:20.695-04:00Steve,
Each time I watch anything on TV where s...Steve, <br /><br />Each time I watch anything on TV where so called scientists say nature did this and nature did that, I play a game with my kids to substitute the term" nature" with "mindless accident" or "Intelligent Designer".... Can you guess which one they choose most of the times and fits better...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-1823981838662064102014-10-16T08:32:22.623-04:002014-10-16T08:32:22.623-04:00By the way, there is not only a signal of design i...By the way, there is not only a signal of design in nature. There is direct evidence of design in nature. <br /><br />Natures used/uses all the same tools (as Man does) and probably many,many more that we dont know of to design life and maintain it. <br /><br />Biomimetics is a hot area of study for good reason. Its only a matter of time before we discover those higher design principles that will allow us to better imitate life in the form of AI.<br /><br />Your silly protestations to the contrary wont change that fact.<br /><br />At least we will have you on record as denying that those design principles can ever be detected or even exist since of course nature does not design nor possesses design capability.<br /><br />We'll have to thank Dembski, Behe, Marks, Wells, Denton, etc. when those superior design principles that nature obviously possesses are finally detected, not Felsenstein, Matzke, Moran, Dawkins, Coyne, Myers.<br /><br /><br /><br />Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-62066234981100218162014-10-16T08:08:44.976-04:002014-10-16T08:08:44.976-04:00Joe, you are learning fast to mimic your fellow po...Joe, you are learning fast to mimic your fellow posters. <br /><br />My argument was not that 'nature was designed (by nature)'. That is your purposeful misinterpretation. <br /><br />What I said was that nature designs just as Man designs. Its a simple logical conclusion.<br /><br />Further, to jog your memory, I asked how is it that nature does not design but Man does? Surely a ludicrous proposition as that would imply that Man is not a part of nature.<br /><br />So, does Joe Felsenstein assert that even though Man designs, it does not follow that nature designs?<br /><br />Well, show the error in the logic. What/where is the dichotomy between nature and Man? What prevents nature from designing but allows Man to design?<br /><br />Why would you want to co-opt other posters tired old rhetorical ploy of blustering out of a direct reply to a simple, clear, logical observation?<br /><br /><br />Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-15262594683848308032014-10-01T23:45:14.579-04:002014-10-01T23:45:14.579-04:00Thanks Rumraket, it goes in the files.
So when co...Thanks Rumraket, it goes in the files.<br /><br />So when conservative Christians say, "Hey, I don't hate gay people. God hates gay people, I just have to do what he says" we can respond, "No, you hate gays, but you think you're God. When you determine whether or not God hates gay people, the part of your brain that <i>evaluates your own opinions</i> is the part that lights up."<br /><br />And when they say, "Why do you hate God so much? You can't hate something you don't believe exists" we can respond, "No, we hate you, and you think you're God. When you determine God's opinions on anything, the part of your brain that <i>evaluates your own opinions</i> is the part that lights up, so we hate the part of you that attributes your own hatred, prejudice and desire for vengeance and violence onto an imaginary person. That part of you is real; we see it in the brain scan."Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-33062263335622524212014-10-01T23:13:27.984-04:002014-10-01T23:13:27.984-04:00Good catch Rumraket. I found something else in Dem...Good catch Rumraket. I found something else in Dembski's syllabus: <i>he gave his students extra credit for trolling "Darwinists" in person</i>, not just online, that is, he ordered his students to be obnoxious face to face to "Darwin-lovers".<br /><br />Dembski: <i>Dear Class, I want to share with you a few things: (1) <b>For extra credit</b> I'd like you to go to SMU on September 24th... there are two back-to-back events at SMU celebrating Darwin... I don't want you going there merely as spectators but <b>will indicate in class</b> how you might actively <b>participate and engage the Darwin-lovers</b> you'll find there.</i><br /><br />Note that Dembski's instructions to his moron army were too incendiary even to be put on the internet! He would only tell them in person how to be obnoxious to "Darwin-lovers", leaving no paper trail. Good thing too, considering how much evidence we have of Discovery Instituters' other malfeasance and dishonesty archived at the Wayback Machine, even after the DI deletes/edits it!Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-44445719916027783212014-10-01T18:08:47.859-04:002014-10-01T18:08:47.859-04:00Holy shit, at that link we can also see that you c...Holy shit, at that link we can also see that you can get extra credit at Dembski's courses merely for getting your copy of Signature in the cell autographed by a speaker at a pro-ID conference. <br /><br />HAHAHahahahahhaha.... <br /><br />Dr Dr Isaac Newton of information-theory and farting ethusiast's courses sound hilarious. Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07670550711237457368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-52711176532094938502014-09-30T22:05:20.330-04:002014-09-30T22:05:20.330-04:00Therefore, the study of how nature designs can bri...<i>Therefore, the study of how nature designs can bring more scientific dividends that the current paradigm of 'evolutionary biology with earplugs,goggles and gas mask.'</i><br /><br />Quite a curious comment, since, if we followed these issues, we would arrive at:<br /><br />«we know that life was "designed" via the natural processes that we call evolution»<br /><br />and<br /><br />«Therefore we should try evolution-like processes to make some designs!»<br /><br />Then you would investigate this thing, and perhaps learn a thing or two about how random mutations, recombination, and selection have been so successful at solving very hard problems, and to actually design, for example, computer chips that do some job that was hard to program.<br /><br />But I had told you about this already. But you don't come here with any interest to learn, but to preach. Right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-79724247808818376242014-09-30T16:26:27.441-04:002014-09-30T16:26:27.441-04:00http://www.pnas.org/content/106/51/21533.full<a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/106/51/21533.full" rel="nofollow">http://www.pnas.org/content/106/51/21533.full</a>Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07670550711237457368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-47174051094907010702014-09-30T12:23:57.373-04:002014-09-30T12:23:57.373-04:00I remember the little pipsqueaks from Dembski'...I remember the little pipsqueaks from Dembski's course hitting AtBC, but not too many of them. They weren't very engaging, either. Certainly not like the professional knuckle-draggers who haunt that forum from time to time. They were also probably shocked by the polite, educated reception they got, quite different from what Dembski told them. I don't think it had much impact one way or the other, just like the rest of Dembski's ideas.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04921039513056888571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-67546493953649300172014-09-30T10:50:51.828-04:002014-09-30T10:50:51.828-04:00Heck, explain why animals are condemned to eat or ...Heck, explain why animals are condemned to eat or be eaten by other animals in this best-of-all-possible-"intelligently"-designed worlds. Or why cute little baby animals die of terrible diseases, courtesy of an all-"merciful" miracle-producing deity who is apparently too busy appearing on burnt tortillas and slapping little propellers onto trillions of microbes' butts to notice.judmarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111006189037693272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-43670682586156883612014-09-30T10:50:46.747-04:002014-09-30T10:50:46.747-04:00Thanks for the info, Diogenes. Just further comme...Thanks for the info, <b>Diogenes.</b> Just further comment on this part:<br /><br /><i>But the fact that his boss said very publibly that Dembski would be insta-fired for questioning Biblical inerrancy is evidence that Dembski's boss had no respect for him. Such disrespectful treatment of an academic, discussing personnel decisions publicly and making explicit threats and demands of obedience, is unheard of in academia. I conclude Dembski's boss couldn't stand him.</i><br /><br />I don't know if that indicates anything personal against Dembski, or just the degree to which conformity of thought is demanded in such institutions. You're right that this would be almost unheard of in an academic institution. But SBTS is not by any stretch of the imagination an academic institution. It's a religious clown college.<br />Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-17374413519593484982014-09-30T09:38:42.094-04:002014-09-30T09:38:42.094-04:00Lutesuite, I don't know why Dembski no longer ...Lutesuite, I don't know why Dembski no longer teaches at the seminary. Evolutionists have some speculations, nothing concrete.<br /><br />You recall that in 2010 Dembski wrote a theology book on old Earth creationism, saying that extinct species etc. lived & died for millions of years before Adam and Eve. But Adam and Eve eating an apple was still the cause of all death in the world, including prehistoric animal death, because eating a magic apple is causative backwards in time. Well that theology did not go over well with a lot of Christians.<br /><br />What was worse was that Dembski said that Noah's Flood was not global. Oops. That implied the Bible was not inerrant, so his boss publicly threatened to insta-fire Dembski if he doubted even one line in the Bible. <br /><br />Brave Sir Dembski, defender of free speech, arch-foe of "censorship" when it comes from Darwinians, immediately caved, and let himself be censored, announcing that of course he had made a mistake, OF COURSE Noah's Flood was global, mea culpa, and he said he needed to learn more about the global Flood by studying the Bible more (not geology-- he didn't need to study geology to know that all the world's geologists were wrong.)<br /><br />That was 2010; Dembski was not immediately fired then. We have no evidence at all whether this incident was connected in any way to Dembski leaving SBTS a couple years later. We don't know if he was fired; maybe he quit.<br /><br />But the fact that his boss said very publibly that Dembski would be insta-fired for questioning Biblical inerrancy is evidence that Dembski's boss had no respect for him. Such disrespectful treatment of an academic, discussing personnel decisions publicly and making explicit threats and demands of obedience, is unheard of in academia. I conclude Dembski's boss couldn't stand him. Why he left, we still don't know.<br /><br />Dr. Dembski had 6 kids. He still draws a salary as Sr. Fellow of the Disco Tute. Let's hope he finds decent employment where he belongs, at a religious institution.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-49671660790872425192014-09-30T09:22:11.266-04:002014-09-30T09:22:11.266-04:00On the contrary, Beau, ridicule and mockery can be...On the contrary, Beau, ridicule and mockery can be very effective rhetorical devices:<br /><br />http://sandwalk.blogspot.ca/2013/03/on-effectiveness-of-ridicule-and-mockery.html<br /><br />It just needs to be used with caution. It doesn't work when Dembski tries it, because his views and actions are so ridiculous to begin with.Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-61225693235913798292014-09-30T09:10:48.612-04:002014-09-30T09:10:48.612-04:00Fascinating Rumraket, do you have a reference?Fascinating Rumraket, do you have a reference?Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-56060077780799845392014-09-30T08:05:52.509-04:002014-09-30T08:05:52.509-04:00Steve, please explain extinctions, scientifically,...Steve, please explain extinctions, scientifically, from your religious-ID-creationist point of view. The whole truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07219999357041824471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-34404939461825722002014-09-30T07:59:32.933-04:002014-09-30T07:59:32.933-04:00The funny thing about these "god says and int...The funny thing about these "god says and intends this and that"-types is that brainscans have revealed that when questioned, the brainareas responsible for their own opinions light up, instead of what one would expect, the areas responsible for trying to estimate what "some one else thinks". <br /><br />So what's really happening when Steve's blathering about what he thinks god has decided, he's really just giving us ad-hoc rationalizations spawned by his own whims and desires. <br /><br />As the saying goes, you can be pretty sure your god is made up when he hates all the same people you do.Mikkel Rumraket Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07670550711237457368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-70866985541237064492014-09-30T05:32:26.654-04:002014-09-30T05:32:26.654-04:00That's remarkable. He would be "not retai...That's remarkable. He would be "not retained" by any real academic institution for such behaviour.SRMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299706694667706149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-90644434070050106062014-09-30T05:25:55.079-04:002014-09-30T05:25:55.079-04:00God has not been a sloth these past couple of thou...<i>God has not been a sloth these past couple of thousand years. He's got Pedro Pio, Fuastina, Medjugoria (sp), Lourdes, on and on.</i><br /><br />Do you mean Padre Pio, St. Faustina (aka Helena Kowalska), and Medjugorje? <br /><br />He also has Benny Hinn, Peter Popoff and a number of underpasses in southern california with water stains that look like jesus or his mother. All equally valid evidence of the divine.SRMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299706694667706149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-81439990202150411242014-09-29T22:04:43.236-04:002014-09-29T22:04:43.236-04:00Steve said clearly that I "denied" his a...Steve said clearly that I "denied" his argument that Nature was designed (by Nature).<br /><br />I never dealt with it at all. I critiqued Dembski's argument that there was a signal of Design in nature.<br /><br />So yes, Steve was Making Stuff Up. <br /><br />Steve says he sees "design principles" put into organisms by Nature. And that we don't know how this was done.<br /><br />Do adaptations put there by natural selection count as these "designs"? In which case we do know how they were put there. Why wasn't this issue dealt with in Steve's argument?<br /><br />As for the rest of Steve's comment, he accused me of a crime. For sure. Jerk.<br /><br />And then he had the barefaced gall to sniffily summarize others as saying that <br /><br /><em>So because Dembski, was infantile at times, therefore we are justified in also being infantile.</em><br /><br />I wonder whether there are two Steves and I have confused them. Or two personalities of one Steve? One is infantile and insulting and Makes Stuff Up. The other loftily sniffs at people who are infantile.<br /><br />Wow, whotta jerk!<br />Joe Felsensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06359126552631140000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-5348381403789625642014-09-29T21:54:20.562-04:002014-09-29T21:54:20.562-04:00I wasn't aware of Dembski and his childish beh...I wasn't aware of Dembski and his childish behavior. I don't support that either. My point was that men of higher intelligence shouldn't stoop so low. Beau Stoddardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03617924374387662273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-70672206795854047462014-09-29T20:58:17.433-04:002014-09-29T20:58:17.433-04:00oh, and judmarc, God has not been a sloth these p...oh, and judmarc, God has not been a sloth these past couple of thousand years. He's got Pedro Pio, Fuastina, Medjugoria (sp), Lourdes, on and on.<br /><br />True, he's tired of wipin' asses, and decided better to let them fight it out....that's the way we've always learned....<br /><br />the hard way.<br /><br />And its no different here. You will just have to learn intelligent design the hard way. Suckin' it up, grumbling about the stupidity of it all..and how you can't see no stinkin' god and how can nature design without a brain for christ's sake...<br /><br />but then, there it is.<br /><br />Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-57006515085722645252014-09-29T20:48:34.685-04:002014-09-29T20:48:34.685-04:00So because Dembski, was infantile at times, theref...So because Dembski, was infantile at times, therefore we are justified in also being infantile.<br /><br />The logic is unassailable. <br /><br />Like a rock.<br /><br />...standing on the rock, waiting for my seeds to grow....waiting for the pieces to fitStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15246115342112568778noreply@blogger.com