tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post4887413129368855597..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Alcoholics Anonymous: 12 StepsLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-8228976780798299382007-09-14T02:51:39.569-04:002007-09-14T02:51:39.569-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-36216901264746887312007-09-13T14:52:00.096-04:002007-09-13T14:52:00.096-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-3964752669446056252007-09-12T12:32:37.274-04:002007-09-12T12:32:37.274-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-55747801093829632412007-09-05T17:27:34.846-04:002007-09-05T17:27:34.846-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-63307563805744617212007-09-02T16:59:00.333-04:002007-09-02T16:59:00.333-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-48689492408869754692007-09-01T03:08:56.541-04:002007-09-01T03:08:56.541-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-12354075488119805152007-08-31T20:31:00.000-04:002007-08-31T20:31:00.000-04:00Micky, you need help. Medical and Pharmaceutical. ...Micky, you need help. Medical and Pharmaceutical. Oh, yeah, and a LIFE!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-68628392774001427022007-08-31T06:48:10.519-04:002007-08-31T06:48:10.519-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-80343324574453501092007-08-19T11:02:00.000-04:002007-08-19T11:02:00.000-04:00The best thing I ever did was go to AA. The second...The best thing I ever did was go to AA. The second best thing I ever did was to STOP going to AA.<BR/>I haven't been to a meeting for three years. For me it was impossible to have the life I wanted sitting in the meetings of AA. After 8 years of meetings I felt I had 'peaked' so to speak, and was now 'coming down' the other side. I didn't want to be exposed to what I heard any longer, the cycle of people in and out the door, misery, happiness, all of it. Too much for me to take. And of course I realised that I was only going out of fear, because I had heard that if I stopped going I would drink and die. I don't drink now and I don't go to meetings. I wanted peace and sanity and I couldn't find it being exposed to what the meetings offered up night after night.<BR/>However, it got me sober, so I still suggest it to people who inquire about it, who think they might have problems with booze. It is a good way to get sober, but not a good way to get sane.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-13901517390775514852007-07-28T08:31:14.388-04:002007-07-28T08:31:14.388-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-37216254728621662492007-07-28T02:58:00.000-04:002007-07-28T02:58:00.000-04:00when i drink, fear is gone. is AA about confrontin...when i drink, fear is gone. is AA about confronting fear?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-63473780640116791732007-07-26T07:45:44.986-04:002007-07-26T07:45:44.986-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-7090716231578119582007-07-26T05:57:00.000-04:002007-07-26T05:57:00.000-04:00AA was created before most of what today is called...AA was created before most of what today is called "psychology" existed; to find wisdom, the founders had to look through folk myth, and religion- they were the ONLY sources at the time for tools and techniques to deal with "the mind."<BR/><BR/>And AA meetings can sometimes have a religious aspect because the LARGE MAJORITY or people in the US & Canada have SOME KIND OF RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.<BR/><BR/>People who come to alcoholism treatment are usually desperate, sad people with ruined lives. If drinking like that was fun, no one would need to quit! And so these people often turn to what they know- they draw comfort from their own religious beliefs.<BR/><BR/>And there are others to whom any religious notion is anaethema. Still others find the relgious references in AA to be too tolerant, and there see them as blasphemy. For these people, AA holds no attraction, and it seems AA wouldn't help them.<BR/><BR/>But note this is NOT the "policy" or "plan" of AA. In Chicago, where I live, there are a fair number of ATHEIST meetings where the word GOD is never uttered. Several of these Atheist AA meetings have been meeting continuosuly for 30 years. I don't think people would continue to support meetings if they were useless wastes of time, etc.<BR/><BR/>National Institutes of Health data indicates that AA has about the same 1-year success rate as other forms of treatment. The same study shows that programs with continuous aftercare or group participation (like AA) have a 20% improvement in 5 year sobriety results. So, even though the old AA guys didn;t have the benefit of modern science the way doctors today do, they still managed to develop a program that is as effective as anything available today. In the meantime, MILLIONS have recovered uysing these methods. True, for millions it was NOT effective. But that is true of all modalities of treatment. READ THE NIH STUDIES.<BR/><BR/>And there is one very important fact to mention: AA is FREE. Many people who need to quit drinking have NO MONEY NO JOB NO HEALTH INSURANCE- and so NO WAY to get ANY kind of treatment!<BR/><BR/><BR/>There are a few other free treatment options, such as Rational Recovery and Secular Organization for Sobriety, as well as some medical treatment, but the VAST MAJORITY of free help comes from AA. In Chicago there are are over 3,000 meetings a week.<BR/><BR/>No prgram works for EVERYONE. There is no 100% cure rate for the disease of addiction. The same is true of many illnesses, such as cancer. Just because a given treatment doesn't work in 100% of the cases doesn't mean it is without value. Chemotherapy often doesn;t work, and cancer patients relapse. But I don't see anyone credible calling for the elimination of chemotherapy....<BR/><BR/>Oh, and contrary to what Penn Gillette says, there is PLENTY of research to show that addiction is a DISEASE and not a FAILURE OF WILL or a BAD CHOICE. I know Penn is a graduate of CLOWN COLLEGE, but even such an AUGUST AUTHORITY must yield to hundreds of pages of PEER REVIEWED STUDY.<BR/><BR/>And as regards AA's view of "powerlessness" let's try this out: let's say you have septicemia. Now, use your "power" or your "will" to stop the septicemia. YOU WILL FIND THAT YOU ARE POWERLESS TO STOP IT. You will need help to recover. Antibiotics and medical support will be necessary. So, where's your notions of POWER here?<BR/><BR/>Since addiction is a disease, your "willpower" is just as useless in overcoming the FUNDAMENTAL aspects of addiction, such as the brain chemistry and neurostructure changes. Given an opportunity, the brain can begin to heal, but few true addicts can stay away from the substances that their brain is telling them are necessary. You need help - support- for that. Also, many addicts have gotten into some very destructive patterns of thought- and here again the group dynamic of a support meeting can provide cognitive therapy to help change that. But these things don't come from WILLPOWER, they come from HELP. These are the basics of ANY treatment method, AA or medical-based.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-16684669843578330692007-07-24T08:33:15.953-04:002007-07-24T08:33:15.953-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-1725423863167717752007-07-24T03:15:00.000-04:002007-07-24T03:15:00.000-04:00It is a true delight to read all the ravings of "M...It is a true delight to read all the ravings of "Micky."<BR/><BR/>Rarely does one encounter someone so absolutely mad as a hatter.<BR/><BR/>It's a real treat to see this (because of its unsullied purity), and a reminder of just how totally overwhelmed one can be by religious madness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-89337398144854359562007-07-16T01:57:26.636-04:002007-07-16T01:57:26.636-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-80236146622443827262007-07-11T02:22:45.034-04:002007-07-11T02:22:45.034-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-84108076066762799172007-07-10T11:55:00.000-04:002007-07-10T11:55:00.000-04:00There is a principle which is a bar against all in...There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguements and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-2965944363410342222007-07-09T14:01:00.000-04:002007-07-09T14:01:00.000-04:00i just find it ironic that everyone that is agains...i just find it ironic that everyone that is against AA on this page uses very hateful terms, very judging and condeming. Everyone that is in AA does just the opposite. I don't know about anyone else, but I try to let people do their own thing, if it works for them go for it. If your happy with it, even better. If I'm sober and enjoying life as a result of AA, which I am, please just let me be. I'm not going to sit here and hate on your jesus, so please don't hate on my AA.anonnymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05106499623226838550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-67185107758804116772007-05-30T02:19:37.253-04:002007-05-30T02:19:37.253-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-14752449570357686852007-05-28T11:38:00.000-04:002007-05-28T11:38:00.000-04:00I think it's time to bring this discussion to a cl...I think it's time to bring this discussion to a close. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere.Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-55596290351507999942007-05-28T03:23:38.475-04:002007-05-28T03:23:38.475-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-34336429244444303252007-05-27T06:40:07.344-04:002007-05-27T06:40:07.344-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-72692686311910441212007-05-26T00:23:00.000-04:002007-05-26T00:23:00.000-04:00Fuck all this Bible shit. AA is forced religion p...Fuck all this Bible shit. AA is forced religion period! It violates the Constitution whatever is left of after motherfucker bush has fucked it up!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-2662760141171762922007-05-24T07:30:25.085-04:002007-05-24T07:30:25.085-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07940745178193985942noreply@blogger.com