tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post4474595859829986239..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Gil Dodgen Explains the Salem ConjectureLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-50205080619432094502011-08-26T14:50:46.404-04:002011-08-26T14:50:46.404-04:00Allan Miller wrote
The algorithm we call evoluti...Allan Miller wrote <br /><br /><i>The algorithm we call evolution also works in a very similar manner to that we designate "intelligence". Poor solutions are discarded out of hand; the better are sifted by an ongoing technique of re-evaluation against current circumstances. Evolution is intelligent design - just not the kind requiring consciousness or intent.</i><br /><br />Elizabeth Liddle, often known as "Febble" on the web, was once <a href="http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/01/dissent-out-of.html" rel="nofollow">banned from Uncommon Descent</a> for making exactly that point.RBHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13562135000111792590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-30000263037778975602011-06-30T22:31:01.607-04:002011-06-30T22:31:01.607-04:00I remember a magazine article about all the crazy ...I remember a magazine article about all the crazy Einstein-was-wrong, paradigm overthrowing papers that physics departments get all the time. The head on one department had noted that the majority of them came from middle-aged engineers. It seems that after a long career of designing bridges and what-not, they felt a little inadequate about not making a mark for themselves. But the sad part is, they seemed to think that with some barely remembered undergrad physics and math (tailored for engineers), a quick read of 'A Brief History of Time', and some engineering moxie, they're ready to tackle the frontiers of physics. Nevermind all those Phd physicists devoting careers to these problems...Russnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-47908696918525149482011-06-21T17:07:51.310-04:002011-06-21T17:07:51.310-04:00Something similar occurred in biology. Anatomists...Something similar occurred in biology. Anatomists tended to be the most skeptical of evol since they were focused on the intricacies of a few specimens rather than the variation exhibited by a population.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-27266871457720828872011-06-15T17:28:28.631-04:002011-06-15T17:28:28.631-04:00Some analysis regarding The Great Question: http:/...Some analysis regarding The Great Question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper_orientationbughammerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01558013203639369036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-32794469428750579642011-06-07T03:03:23.782-04:002011-06-07T03:03:23.782-04:00This bothers me: I never met a single mouse trap c...This bothers me: I never met a single mouse trap collector or otherwise expert of artefact history, who would not say they evolve. If some of them are creationists or IDologists, that would put Michael Behe at cross purpose with them, because he claims that mouse traps, and by implication other irreducibly complex things, cannot evolve. <br /><br />joeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-71626508727505896012011-06-07T02:08:42.992-04:002011-06-07T02:08:42.992-04:00On second thought, Salem's conjecture might ex...On second thought, Salem's conjecture might explain why Crick once speculated about "directed panspermia" - a strange ancestor of ID, I guess.<br /><br />joeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-92000092263360026702011-06-07T02:03:25.599-04:002011-06-07T02:03:25.599-04:00Francis Crick worked as an engineer of munitions d...Francis Crick worked as an engineer of munitions during world war ii<br /><br /><br />joeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-32584576457037451542011-06-06T20:06:38.040-04:002011-06-06T20:06:38.040-04:00I'm a construction worker. I construct stuff. ...I'm a construction worker. I construct stuff. OBVIOUSLY those so-called biologists can't understand what it takes to construct a building. Therefore evolution is a lie.<br /><br />Hey, I am a watchmaker. If you saw a watch in a heath, you wouldn't think it was made by CHANCE, would you? That's what biologists say. Evolution is a lie because of watches.<br /><br />Hello, I'm a novelist. I write novels. A novel must be written by a novelist, therefore evolution is a lie.<br /><br />Hey, I'm an engineer. You know how it goes.josenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-78008507540335868512011-06-06T08:50:53.659-04:002011-06-06T08:50:53.659-04:00Marcus Ranum wrote:
the algorithm we call "e...Marcus Ranum wrote:<br /><br /><i>the algorithm we call "evolution" works the same way in both cases. </i><br /><br />The algorithm we call evolution also works in a very similar manner to that we designate "intelligence". Poor solutions are discarded out of hand; the better are sifted by an ongoing technique of re-evaluation against current circumstances. Evolution is intelligent design - just not the kind requiring consciousness or intent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-5060964793498397332011-06-04T12:11:50.716-04:002011-06-04T12:11:50.716-04:00There's also the option of using the nice cros...There's also the option of using the nice crossbar as a place on which to store your toilet paper roll, vertically. This has the advantage of taking no set-up time, and allowing very high toilet paper bandwidth when the dog gets the loose end in his mouth.Marcus Ranumhttp://www.ranum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-81995789128523109302011-06-04T12:10:23.884-04:002011-06-04T12:10:23.884-04:00How can any engineer NOT be a Darwinian?? If you l...How can any engineer NOT be a Darwinian?? If you look at all the technology we use, it's all a model for how evolution works! Yes, engineers, <i>you</i> evolve your designs - you didn't just jump from Babbage's difference machine to your quad-core Mac without going through ENIAC and Z80 and i386 ... If you look at every complex technology (and a few of the simple ones!) that we build, they are all based on "stepwise refinement" - engineering evolution. The bad features of a design get improved and the bad designs die out...<br /><br />I just got home from visiting the Musee Des Arts et Metiers in Paris (one of my favorite museums in the world) and greatly enjoyed hall after hall of machines of various types, starting with the basic forms and moving toward today's more highly evolved designs. If you look at something like a railroad train's braking systems (they have about 20 in a row at the museum) their evolution looks eerily familiar. I'm not saying that machines evolve exactly the same way that organisms do, of course, but rather that the algorithm we call "evolution" works the same way in both cases. Anyone who doesn't understand this isn't qualified to be an engineer, and certainly isn't qualified to talk about biology either.Marcus Ranumhttp://www.ranum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-58618207600571715322011-06-03T13:15:09.332-04:002011-06-03T13:15:09.332-04:00damitall, your assumption is incorrect, but I am n...<i>damitall, your assumption is incorrect, but I am not wasting time arguing with you about it.</i><br /><br />You are completely wrong when you say Gil Dodgen's assertions are plausible, but I won't waste any time arguing with you about it.ALnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-48212467579221831952011-06-02T14:58:07.378-04:002011-06-02T14:58:07.378-04:00B is correct.
Unbelievers will be excommunicated....B is correct.<br /><br />Unbelievers will be excommunicated.<br /><br />Have a nice day.Janicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05090160804898345117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-600132164643534972011-06-02T12:06:04.275-04:002011-06-02T12:06:04.275-04:00I know I have several interview questions that are...<i>I know I have several interview questions that are designed to expose the pompous ass know it all when I am hiring.</i><br /><br />This may not be the place for it, but I'd be interested in seeing those questions sometime - I've met a few pompous ass know-it-alls and I'm eager to avoid them in future.TheBrummellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08973380652057861796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-6111730554452856732011-06-02T10:14:50.425-04:002011-06-02T10:14:50.425-04:00I would be interested in that data that supports t...I would be interested in that data that supports the conjecture. What I see does not match up - although as an engineer (not the driver of a train) - I can certainly understand it could be the case. The field does have a seemingly disproportionate number of pompous ass know it alls.<br /><br />Having a background in biological sciences and degree in biochemistry I have followed the biological science my entire adult life, even though I abandoned the field for solid state physics.<br /><br />My conjecture is that any scientist is always interested in the data and carries a large (well learned) skepticism. So I do not connect anything in engineering to creationism. I connect pompous ass-ism to it. I know I have several interview questions that are designed to expose the pompous ass know it all when I am hiring. There is just no room for that behavior in any field.<br /><br />Maybe they are all mechanical engineers, sure that would explain a lot ...George Riecknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-91088728217267784502011-06-02T08:12:41.067-04:002011-06-02T08:12:41.067-04:00Let me see if I understand the basis of what's...Let me see if I understand the basis of what's being said here.<br /><br /><i>People who aren't engineers -- y'know, the guys who design the fans that blow air around your room and make you say "ahhhh..." -- can never understand how that their skills are proof that somewhere there MUST be a giant fan that makes the wind blow and make you say "ahhhh...".</i> I'm paraphrasing, of course, but that's about the size of it, I think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-41278309912825482592011-06-01T15:36:42.223-04:002011-06-01T15:36:42.223-04:00When somebody uses the term "Darwinist,"...When somebody uses the term "Darwinist," he/she may be safely ignored as they will have nothing cogent to say. That's automatic because there is no such thing, any more then there are "Newtonists" or "Einsteinists".SLCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-21261221143714142652011-06-01T10:03:41.971-04:002011-06-01T10:03:41.971-04:00Multiobjective gas turbine engine controller desig...Multiobjective gas turbine engine controller design using genetic algorithms - http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=538616<br /><br />Gas turbine engine controller design using multiobjective genetic algorithms - http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=501674<br /><br />Optimization of Wind Turbine Blades Using Genetic Algorithm - http://globaljournals.org/GJRE_Volume10/4-Optimization-of-Wind-Turbine-Blades-Using-Genetic-Algorithm.pdf<br /><br />Genetic design of solids possessing a random-particulate microstructure - http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2003RSPTA.361.1021Z<br /><br />Genetic Design Method for Near-Optimal Training Sequences in Wideband Spatial Multiplexing Systems -http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200517/000020051705A0681698.phpsteve oberskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-80152473113030026422011-06-01T09:41:07.781-04:002011-06-01T09:41:07.781-04:00My question is why so many of those creationist en...My question is why so many of those creationist engineers claim to be scientists.<br /><br />Tom SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-34902115770640783292011-06-01T08:06:30.201-04:002011-06-01T08:06:30.201-04:00"I have always noted a slight edge of entitle...<i>"I have always noted a slight edge of entitlement or arrogance that runs through the ranks. Something to do with the cultish-ness of the profession perhaps?"</i><br /><br /><br />Could be. I have heard that in many engineering schools, the Dean gathers the engineering students together early in their academic careers and essentially tells tham that they are better and smarter than all of the other students, that the non-engineering students aspire to be like them, etc. I have heard this from many engineers I know who found the whole experience rather disturbing. Then, most of the engineers I know are not YECs/IDCs. <br /> I will say that in my experience, the engineering students at my university are noticeably more arrogant than other students (several notable exceptions, but I am talking generalities).<br /><br />I had to laugh - about a year ago, an engineering prof friend of mine put a sign on his office door that read:<br />"Scientists explain the way things are. Engineers create what never was."<br />A few weeks after that, we were reveiwing faculty research proposals (he and I serve on the same committee that does this) and every single proposal from the engineering faculty was simply tinkering with already-existing machinery/contraptions. I said to him, "Create things that never were, huh?"<br /><br />He took down his sign a few days later. My one small victory in the fight against unwarranted arrogance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-79495589779564795842011-05-31T23:33:15.457-04:002011-05-31T23:33:15.457-04:00I have worked as an engineer in the semiconductor ...I have worked as an engineer in the semiconductor industry for the better part of two decades now. I have encountered a number of engineers who have tried to use their background to argue against evolutionary biology. It has always left me rather baffled and embarrassed. I tend not to see the Salem Conjecture as being all that mysterious; I think it is a simple matter of engineering offering a sense of authority while maintaining the luxury of ignorance. If creationist got any closer to science, the cognitive dissonance would be lethal.Cleanroom Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-51329232510973223612011-05-31T23:27:20.319-04:002011-05-31T23:27:20.319-04:00Choice B is correct, by the way.
LOL. But can you...<i>Choice B is correct, by the way.</i><br /><br />LOL. But can you substantiate your claim? No more than 6,000 words, please.DKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-40504124499921856132011-05-31T22:07:21.092-04:002011-05-31T22:07:21.092-04:00Engineers, like creationists, know their conclusio...Engineers, like creationists, know their conclusion before they start. What's important to an engineer is that the system performs to the specifications given before you start. What's important to a creationist is that the hypothesis aligns with the book that was written before you started.<br />In either case, you can manipulate the system all you want in order to get the desired output. For engineers, it's because that's the job. For creationists, it's because they're deluded, dishonest or dense.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05927378164670751211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-32477420272755080712011-05-31T21:56:58.241-04:002011-05-31T21:56:58.241-04:00Anyone who argues for the B style of toilet paper ...Anyone who argues for the B style of toilet paper does not have a cat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-35612676868642392202011-05-31T21:03:51.993-04:002011-05-31T21:03:51.993-04:00Anus said,
I have spent a career in the developme...Anus said,<br /><br /><i>I have spent a career in the development (and managing the development) of complicated computer systems.<br />What Gil Dodgen has said seems plausible to me based on my experience.</i><br /><br />I have spent a career developing (and managing the development of) complicated computer systems. What Gil Dodgen has said shows him to be an imbecile, just as you are.<br /><br />"We have never designed something as complex as the human body, thus the human body is designed" (???). Right.<br /><br />"Replacing a lost arm is impossible no mater how advanced our technology, thus the arm is designed" (???). Right.<br /><br />"A pseudogene levels off RNA molecules of its functioning counterpart. Because this is more complicated and convoluted than producing the right amount of RNA in the first place it is designed" (???). Right.<br /><br />"Junk RNA might be there for editing functional RNAs. Because this is more convoluted and complicated than producing a usable RNA to begin with this is designed" (???). Right.<br /><br />Maybe you enjoy producing software with lots of convoluted turn arounds, left overs from previous programs patched together whichever way make most of your "new" software, whether there might be an unexpected outcome does not matter, just as it does not matter if there might a possibility for a simpler solution.<br /><br />(Now I understand better why Larry does not like the algorithm metaphor.)<br /><br />What else does your amazing experience developing computer programs indicate Anus.? Mine seems to lead to the opposite conclusion, but maybe you know something about designing software that I don't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com