tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post3318869851680065832..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Thesis Defense - 35th AnniversaryLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-34726725003101580712010-06-30T06:17:47.013-04:002010-06-30T06:17:47.013-04:0035 years of Thesis Defense is a very long period!35 years of <a href="http://www.mastersthesiswriting.com" rel="nofollow">Thesis</a> Defense is a very long period!Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01356453350168807486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-87394311707204289702009-03-31T00:50:00.000-04:002009-03-31T00:50:00.000-04:00Great post! And congratulations post factum!In tha...Great post! And congratulations post factum!<BR/><BR/>In that photograph you look a bit like my dad! (*1943, MD 1972/73, I think.) Obviously, there has been some divergence since then (except in the hair department, for all I can judge).<BR/><BR/>And yes, I do hear stories about typewriters, and punchcards, and all that stuff, sometimes. My mom was not involved in the diss, AFAIK. Gotta ask, though.Ben Breuernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-45423992690105951102009-03-28T18:59:00.000-04:002009-03-28T18:59:00.000-04:00I have no intention of debating you about whether ...<I><BR/>I have no intention of debating you about whether I qualified for tenure 25 years ago.<BR/><BR/>If you have a point then please make it more clearly. Are you whining about the fact that things seem so much tougher for you than they were for me? Boo hoo.</I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, I can't make my point more explicit than I already have: I think you were qualified for a tenure because, as far as I can tell, you are a good teacher. Still, either you lucked out or things are much tougher today than 25 years ago. So, what is it? Care to answer?<BR/><BR/>And no, I don't think that merely stating the facts constitutes whining. <BR/><BR/><I>To me it sounds insane to deny tenure to the person you mentioned ... <BR/>Care to mention which place you're talking about?</I> <BR/><BR/>No, I am not naming names. Because this is not about myself. If you allow anonymous responses, you shouldn't have a problem with it.DKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-68414931688327260272009-03-28T17:08:00.000-04:002009-03-28T17:08:00.000-04:00DK,I have no intention of debating you about wheth...DK,<BR/><BR/>I have no intention of debating you about whether I qualified for tenure 25 years ago.<BR/><BR/>If you have a point then please make it more clearly. Are you whining about the fact that things seem so much tougher for you than they were for me? Boo hoo.<BR/><BR/>Does it make you feel better to belittle my achievements?<BR/><BR/>Different universities have different ways of making decisions and who's to say which one is correct? The kind of effort it took to publish a paper in the past isn't the same as it is today. <BR/><BR/>To me it sounds insane to deny tenure to the person you mentioned. However, I know there are some universities that have a very high opinion of themselves.<BR/><BR/>Care to mention which place you're talking about?Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-19506767462323011732009-03-28T11:03:00.000-04:002009-03-28T11:03:00.000-04:00I don't really know how things were 30 years ago s...I don't really know how things were 30 years ago so I can't be sure how things changed. But the trend in tenure, I think, is to limit it. See, for example:<BR/>http://journals.lww.com/academicmedicine/Fulltext/2004/03000/Tenure_in_Transition__Trends_in_Basic_Science.3.aspx<BR/><BR/>What I do know is that in decent research universities these days getting a tenure based on future promise (like you say you got) is pretty much impossible. One must have a major grant and a very good to outstanding publication record. Assuming that you were hired in 1978-79 and got tenured in 1984, you had four papers published by that time. Two of them in major journals (PNAS and MCB) and two in obscure ones (Can J Biochem Cell Biol and Bioscience Rep). In places I know, that would never be enough. In fact, a person in my dept. was recently denied tenure despite having a five years NSF grant and 9 publications in major journals an Assistant Prof. <BR/><BR/>So one of these: <BR/>1. You simply got lucky. <BR/>2. Standards today are more stringent.<BR/>3. U Toronto's standards are nowhere near standards in the ~ top 50 US universities. <BR/><BR/>Personally, I think it's a combination of 1 and 2. <BR/><BR/>That said, I do feel you deserved tenure if you are a very good teacher. Screw publication records and funding. Quality of education is in steady decline precisely because <BR/>of the emphasis on faculty bringing in extramural megabucks. I am sick and tired of professors who view teachng as a major distraction from their real job (getting funded to do research).DKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-58203566197264223742009-03-28T08:17:00.000-04:002009-03-28T08:17:00.000-04:00DK says,So you lucked out. Good. Judging from the ...DK says,<BR/><BR/><I>So you lucked out. Good. Judging from the blog, you are probably a very good teacher. That alone, IMHO, should qualify for a tenure. But, alas, that's not how it really works - particularly these days.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure how to interpret your comments. <BR/><BR/>If you have a point, could you make it more clearly? <BR/><BR/>The rules for tenure in my department haven't changed very much in the past 30 years. Research productivity and promise are the only things that count. In my department the decision is made in your fourth year as an Assistant Professor.<BR/><BR/>Do you think the rules have changed?Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-48284483101228446192009-03-27T22:35:00.000-04:002009-03-27T22:35:00.000-04:00I convinced them to give me tenure based on future...<I>I convinced them to give me tenure based on future promise. I think they regret the decision. :-)</I><BR/><BR/>So you lucked out. Good. Judging from the blog, you are probably a very good teacher. That alone, IMHO, should qualify for a tenure. But, alas, that's not how it really works - particularly these days.DKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-47039093209309531772009-03-27T16:58:00.000-04:002009-03-27T16:58:00.000-04:00I find your story inspiring. I am going through a ...I find your story inspiring. I am going through a similar event now as I try to wrap up my PhD and it would not be possible without the love and support of my wife.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-10477503644688662872009-03-27T10:17:00.000-04:002009-03-27T10:17:00.000-04:00DK asks,Then, what did you do as a postdoc (and fo...DK asks,<BR/><BR/><I>Then, what did you do as a postdoc (and for how long)?</I><BR/><BR/>I spend four years in Geneva Switzerland with Alfred Tissières studying heat shock genes in <I>Drosophila melanogaster</I>. <BR/><BR/><I>And, what did your publication record look like when you got a real job (=tenure track)?</I><BR/><BR/>Pretty decent. I had four papers from my work as a graduate student and seven from my postdoc days (three were in press). All of the postdoc papers were collaborations with Walter Gehring's group in Basel, Switzerland.<BR/><BR/><I>And after that, what were important findings that earned you a tenure?</I><BR/><BR/>There weren't any. I convinced them to give me tenure based on future promise. I think they regret the decision. :-)Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-36372022297751173282009-03-27T08:16:00.000-04:002009-03-27T08:16:00.000-04:00I have heard stories about this 'typewriter' thing...I have heard stories about this 'typewriter' thing. And the 'hand drawn figures'... I thought they were just scary stories PIs told their students to give them nightmares, like The Boogie Man.<BR/><BR/>I dont know how you all did this without computers. You all are amazing.ERVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02070086354372691880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-47086599282462415622009-03-27T05:49:00.000-04:002009-03-27T05:49:00.000-04:00Aside from the haircut, you looked far more innoce...Aside from the haircut, you looked far more innocent back then. Congratulations on the anniversary of your achievement!Augrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534417456240169205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-82064411740597324432009-03-27T00:55:00.000-04:002009-03-27T00:55:00.000-04:00Congratulations! Even though I have no idea what y...Congratulations! Even though I have no idea what you're talking about, it sounds important, and surely earning your PhD is a huge milestone. Love the photo!Gordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10768895108534738808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-62443843374750834532009-03-26T21:36:00.000-04:002009-03-26T21:36:00.000-04:00Jeez, I can't even remember the date of my defence...Jeez, I can't even remember the date of my defence. It never felt particularly important. Just another formality...<BR/><BR/>So, you learned a lot as a graduate student but you haven't answered the scientific question about gp41. Sh#t happens. Then, what did you do as a postdoc (and for how long)? And, what did your publication record look like when you got a real job (=tenure track)? And after that, what were important findings that earned you a tenure?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-11593544246854757032009-03-26T19:43:00.000-04:002009-03-26T19:43:00.000-04:00We knew that replication was carried out by a comp...<I>We knew that replication was carried out by a <B>complex protein machine that assembled at a replication</B> fork but we didn't know all the players or what they did.</I><BR/><BR/>Early evidence for Intelligent Design!<BR/><BR/>Congratulations, Larry and Leslie Jane.<BR/><BR/>TrutiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-50016561511778863982009-03-26T17:13:00.000-04:002009-03-26T17:13:00.000-04:00I thought this post might get into the "Old Tools"...I thought this post might get into the "Old Tools" category! :) Just kidding. How well I remember that damn thesis. In those days, we had no computers and every friggin' time you made one small revision (count them) the entire chapter had to be retyped. Who said that taking typing in high school was a dumb option?? Turns out I was responsible not only for getting you out of Princeton, but also our lawyer! It was such a wonderful time in our lives. It was always the goal to leave, and carry on with new research, but how I wish we were able to relive those days now. Congratulations and best love always.<BR/> Leslie Jane.....Leslie Jane Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16641731049466182446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-57174072218318633452009-03-26T15:33:00.000-04:002009-03-26T15:33:00.000-04:00Congrats on 35 fruitful years. Proud to have been ...Congrats on 35 fruitful years. Proud to have been your student for one of them.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01146843329866393543noreply@blogger.com