tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post2168066661508184784..comments2024-03-27T14:50:47.345-04:00Comments on <center>Sandwalk</center>: Jerry Coyne doubles down on his criticism of how evolution is taught in Ontario schoolsLarry Moranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-81889647006628388072016-02-07T23:41:38.945-05:002016-02-07T23:41:38.945-05:00I was educated in Ontario in the 90s and I didn...I was educated in Ontario in the 90s and I didn't understand evolution by natural selection until I was in my 20s researching it on my own. Of course I managed to know of the theory of evolution, that is, that scientists say we evolved from primordial goo into humans. I did not understand natural selection. When I learned exactly what it was, my mind was completely blown, my entire conception of nature was transformed, and I thought to myself "how in the hell did the most powerful explanatory theory in the history of mankind not get properly explained to me?" Testing for a proper understanding of the mechanism of evolution is paramount. I passed all of my classes... how did I get out of the 8th grade still not understanding this basic and all encompassing theory? Anyone trying to sell me the idea that Ontario teaches evolution just fine will need to explain the changes that have been made in the last 15 years.<br /><br />thank youwisecrackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11045186895169666143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-38941373326707742462015-09-03T10:41:50.876-04:002015-09-03T10:41:50.876-04:00I see a lot of religion and creationism here. But ...I see a lot of religion and creationism here. But debating religious faith and fundamentalism hardly may be of any value. People cherish their faith and beliefs, right or wrong.I'll just point out that "My kingdom is not of this world" and "The Kingdom of Heaven is within". <br /><br /><i>And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.</i><br /><br />It is a gift. <br />Rolf Aalberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12878337054438652463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-76389788896651338512015-08-31T06:49:44.084-04:002015-08-31T06:49:44.084-04:00There are similar concerns in the U.S., but also m...<i>There are similar concerns in the U.S., but also movements to remove mentions of ham and bacon, lest they offend Muslims.</i><br /><br />If such things are becoming common in America, then I can understand Coyne's wariness of the word "diversity." That is, if he has little awareness of the situation in Canada, where such incidents occur rarely, if ever.Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-43063467965050423072015-08-30T22:10:39.074-04:002015-08-30T22:10:39.074-04:00dr moran.
its an interpretation of real difference...dr moran.<br />its an interpretation of real differences between different nations. i'm not the first to say things like this.<br />There is a heritage of liberity/freedom in america that was not here.<br />In fact all the men did not get the vote until the late 1800's.<br />Its measurable and definable and explains why there is a difference in interest and vigour in affairs between the two nations.<br />We do have a trust in authority that the Yanks don't. We are wrong and they are right. Its why Canada exists and is not a part of America. the old ones didn't want to be a part. Only later thought independence was a good idea.<br />its true history.Robert Byershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05631863870635096770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-86144580280847978752015-08-30T17:43:06.589-04:002015-08-30T17:43:06.589-04:00Tell us, Septic Mind, how Jerry made a fool of him...Tell us, Septic Mind, how Jerry made a fool of himself in his book "Why Evolution Is True"? In which chapter? Page numbers, please.Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551943619872944637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-86046818523226527712015-08-30T14:53:39.186-04:002015-08-30T14:53:39.186-04:00Okay we all agree evolution should be taught. Let...Okay we all agree evolution should be taught. Let's get to a scenario that leaves me a bit confused, which happens often because I'm an idiot. Let's pretend professor Moran and professor Privine are teachers at the same high school. They both are instructed to focus on genetic drift in their respective classes. They don't see eye to eye on the issue. Who's view is to be taught and why? Beau Stoddardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03617924374387662273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-59134691602531151732015-08-30T14:25:36.986-04:002015-08-30T14:25:36.986-04:00Lutesuite, didn't i say both should be left ou...Lutesuite, didn't i say both should be left out? You make agreeing with you so difficult. Beau Stoddardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03617924374387662273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-31873046837516709172015-08-30T14:21:27.923-04:002015-08-30T14:21:27.923-04:00There are similar concerns in the U.S., but also m...There are similar concerns in the U.S., but also movements to remove mentions of ham and bacon, lest they offend Muslims.<br /><br />The problem is getting past incendiary headlines and finding actual trends. At least I find that difficult.Petrushkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02343702725399620404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-39869979200484240082015-08-30T14:16:16.674-04:002015-08-30T14:16:16.674-04:00I don't doubt it. However, in the context of ...I don't doubt it. However, in the context of the Ontario Ministry of Education, it more commonly connotes things like programs to reduce bullying of LGBTQ students, which tend to cause creationists to have conniptions. Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-39687675716277689792015-08-30T12:02:24.320-04:002015-08-30T12:02:24.320-04:00Because the word diversity, in the academic world,...Because the word diversity, in the academic world, has become a code word for shutting down discussion that offends people.Petrushkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02343702725399620404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-9559431334497400392015-08-30T11:21:09.253-04:002015-08-30T11:21:09.253-04:00Hey Robert,
I was going to respond to your "...Hey Robert,<br /><br />I was going to respond to your "post" but then I thought, why bother ?steve oberskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067724166134333068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-44335750583711255712015-08-30T10:34:51.394-04:002015-08-30T10:34:51.394-04:00"The view prevailing among most theologians t..."The view prevailing among most theologians today is that there is no conflict between the evolution model of the origin and development of life and the truths presented in the Book of Genesis. It still remains true that the origin of every human soul is a new act of creation by God and creator. (That is why the evolution model cannot explain completely the leap from highly developed animal form to the fully conscious, thinking, feeling and deciding human person.)"<br /><br />http://www.stjameshopewell.org/questions/question_evolution.htmlPetrushkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02343702725399620404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-5233831382577307402015-08-30T10:31:59.037-04:002015-08-30T10:31:59.037-04:00"... According to the Catechism of the Cathol..."... According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, any believer may accept either literal or special creation within the period of an actual six day, twenty-four hour period, or they may accept the belief that the earth evolved over time under the guidance of God. All Catholics must accept that God initiated and continued the process of his evolutionary creation, that Adam and Eve were real people (although they may have not been the only two humans existent in the beginning of time), and that all humans, whether specially created or evolved, have and have always had specially created souls for each individual. Catholics can believe in evolution just as long as God's involvement is acknowledged."<br /><br />http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=882980Petrushkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02343702725399620404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-40035012715784104132015-08-30T08:30:56.065-04:002015-08-30T08:30:56.065-04:00But I still think Coyne is justified in being susp...<i>But I still think Coyne is justified in being suspicious of words like diversity.</i><br /><br />Really? Why? Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-31346761669724710562015-08-30T08:26:59.646-04:002015-08-30T08:26:59.646-04:00I am pleased, however, to see that Jerry Coyne has...I am pleased, however, to see that Jerry Coyne has now had a mountain named after him. I guess he was just too modest to mention that on his blog.Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-50911946029700673762015-08-30T07:44:15.422-04:002015-08-30T07:44:15.422-04:00Whenever I read your comments on the history of Ca...Whenever I read your comments on the history of Canada I'm reminded of the phrase "not even wrong."Larry Moranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05756598746605455848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-34331914026297964612015-08-29T23:35:15.768-04:002015-08-29T23:35:15.768-04:00The big difference in our two nations is that amer...The big difference in our two nations is that america has a heritage of freedom and liberity and rebellion against authority and all this backed up by the consent of the people in forming their government. Including the constitution verifying the consent of the people in living under thier form of government.<br />So this means great dexterity of words/concepts must be invoked to bring state control over conclusions and religious truth and censorship agendas.<br />thats why America struggles with the origin issue in public institutions. <br />Thats why evolution guardians like Mt Coyne are suspicious about intents/words and so about other nations.<br />in Canada we do not have a heritage of liberity/freedom/rebellion. Can'y explain why right now.<br />so its very easy for the establishment to dictate what is done. Even if there is resistance its not able to bring effect as not having the same tools as the Yanks.<br />When a people are under authority more and so society is less a reflection of themselves then they are more disinterested in how society is run. Canucks are apathetic more then yanks. They don't feel it as much.<br />If they introduced creationism and censored evolution , relatively, then would hardly be a yelp. <br />It matters more in america then canada. Its about truth and freedom/liverity to pursue the truth. <br />The good guys will prevail in time. We always do.<br /><br />Robert Byershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05631863870635096770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-75728332321475035252015-08-29T20:32:13.980-04:002015-08-29T20:32:13.980-04:00"If humans are evolving, why has the human ge..."If humans are evolving, why has the human genome accumulated so many mutations and useless stuff? If humans are evolving, why is 90% of human genome junk?<br /><br />If humans are evolving, shouldn’t our genome be improving rather than the other way around?"<br /><br />Here's a thought: instead of wasting your time and the time of others by posting completely inane ridiculous BS that demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that you comprehend nothing about the theory of evolution, spend that time reading what Larry actually writes and learn.<br /><br />It's impossible to be skeptical when you are incompetent at comprehension. At that point you're merely being septical. <br />Uncivilized Elkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12876539220615373258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-59846335333214313792015-08-29T19:25:37.587-04:002015-08-29T19:25:37.587-04:00"I think you should be able to teach science ..."I think you should be able to teach science as it's understood but leave out the atheism."<br /><br />I agree completely. "Teaching" atheism would be inappropriate in a science class. Atheism is simply the provisional conclusion that gods do not exist based on the available evidence. Why would someone bring that up? If you wanted to talk about standards of evidence you could talk about the lack of evidence for the existence of Santa Claus.<br /><br />What atheism is being "pushed" when you talk about the evolution of humans?Chris Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04778164246719803780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-7463554380614756632015-08-29T19:22:04.865-04:002015-08-29T19:22:04.865-04:00That didn't any of my questions, Beau, but I g...That didn't any of my questions, Beau, but I guess it's you prerogative to ignore them.<br /><br />I'm interested to hear some examples of what you claim are "teachers pushing atheism." I'm not aware of that happening in any elementary or high school, but that doesn't mean it never happened. Enlighten me.<br /><br />I suppose you didn't bother mention teachers pushing Christianity because, as anyone knows, examples of that are legion. You'll find quite a few here, for instance:<br /><br />http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/?s=school<br /><br /> Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-51356942173341050922015-08-29T18:53:09.766-04:002015-08-29T18:53:09.766-04:00I think you should be able to teach science as it&...I think you should be able to teach science as it's understood but leave out the atheism. Maybe I'm wrong about Coyne but I've read of other teachers and professors pushing atheism. Can't have it both ways. Beau Stoddardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03617924374387662273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-91545000334650557642015-08-29T18:42:08.284-04:002015-08-29T18:42:08.284-04:00Hey screwed up mind, do you really believe that no...Hey screwed up mind, do you really believe that no scientists are working on and figuring out the details of the history of life? Have you ever actually looked into what scientists are working on and figuring out? Here's a hint: You won't find it in the bible or other impossible myths and you won't find it on websites like ENV, AIG, ICR, etc. <br /><br />"Are humans evolving or regressing?<br /><br />If humans are evolving, why has the human genome accumulated so many mutations and useless stuff? If humans are evolving, why is 90% of human genome junk?<br /><br />If humans are evolving, shouldn’t our genome be improving rather than the other way around?"<br /><br />What makes you think that evolution should always cause and/or result in improvement in any or every detail of organisms? (I'm being really generous when using the word "think" in any regard to you.)<br /><br />"I have been "around the corner" for too, too long to buy "maybe's.""<br /><br />Yeah, you "buy" impossibilities, such as your imaginary sky daddy. <br /><br />"I don't reject evolution."<br /><br />Yeah, riiiight. <br /><br />"I reject the claims of evolutionists like Jerry Coyne regarding what evolution can accomplish."<br /><br />Aw, poor little screwed up mind. It's terrible, just terrible and so unfair that your chosen, imaginary sky daddy isn't included in scientific evolutionary theory. I'm crying a river for you. <br /><br />"I'm not blind but I don't buy into "science without evidence"that makes ridicules claims."<br /><br />ROFLMAO! Stop, please stop, I hurt from laughing so hard. You don't "buy into" science at all, except in the ways that you take unappreciative advantage of the many things that science has provided, and while doing that you "buy into" horrible, impossible religious crap that has never provided anything worthwhile, and never will. <br /><br />"Do you want to change my mind? No problem. Provide evidence for your claims and I will evaluate them"<br /><br />What's left of your regressive mind is obviously too screwed up to change in any positive way, and your evaluation of anything, especially anything scientific, is unimportant, to put it mildly. <br /><br />"But, don't sell me your beliefs as science! I have enough of that among the many creationists."<br /><br />Says the IDiot-creationist who's trying to sell his wacky beliefs as science. The whole truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07219999357041824471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-8810583053574125782015-08-29T17:38:14.882-04:002015-08-29T17:38:14.882-04:00LS, I think that the difference is that evolution ...LS, I think that the difference is that evolution can be taught quite well and thoroughly without ever mentioning human evolution specifically. It would be hard to provide effective and fact based sex education by leaving out all of the issues that people like McVety want left out. <br /><br />William Spearshakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09354659259971103985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-9254850448513469382015-08-29T17:04:22.332-04:002015-08-29T17:04:22.332-04:00If that's what science declares then yes I wou...<i>If that's what science declares then yes I would. </i><br /><br />I share John's confusion, but I suspect you meant to say you would <i>not</i> object.<br /><br />My questions:<br /><br />What do you mean "if"? <br /><br />And, if I am correct in my interpretation of your answer and you would not object, then why do you accuse Coyne of nefarious hidden motivations when he suggests teaching just that?Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37148773.post-41491891817714393452015-08-29T16:57:38.720-04:002015-08-29T16:57:38.720-04:00You'll notice, however, that the Sex Ed curric...You'll notice, however, that the Sex Ed curriculum is moving forward as planned, despite the protestations of the likes of Charles McVety. So I'm not sure why you think education policy would be more concerned about those protestations in formulating its biology curriculum.Faizal Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937075798809265805noreply@blogger.com